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Thread: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

  1. #91
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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    That's a yes on showing the same thing you have to show to buy a pack of cigarettes. I'll leave the hyperbole to your machinations.
    But that ID can be faked, so you have not solved the voter fraud issue.

    However, since some legal people will be unable to obtain valid ID's, or will be deterred from legally voting because of the requirement of a photo ID, you have prevented legal votes from being cast. In all estimation, you will prevent more legal votes than illegal votes from being cast... which is, of course, the GOP goal.

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You admit all of those things happen, right? Showing an ID helps resolve fraudulently gaining and casting ballots.
    I admit that 2 of 7 could be reduced by a photo ID law (assuming they are actually occurring).

    Will you admit that a photo ID law would prevent more legal votes than illegal votes?

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    But that ID can be faked, so you have not solved the voter fraud issue.

    However, since some legal people will be unable to obtain valid ID's, or will be deterred from legally voting because of the requirement of a photo ID, you have prevented legal votes from being cast. In all estimation, you will prevent more legal votes than illegal votes from being cast... which is, of course, the GOP goal.
    How can you deter legal votes from being cast if they cannot be legally are cast without ID?

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    I can't imagine why anyone would be allowed to vote without photo ID. How in the hell could you verify who they are? [...]
    Generally speaking, they have to register long before they can vote (say, 30 days). During the registration process they usually have to present some form of ID (photo is not necessarily required).

    When you go to vote, they check to see if you are registered to vote. If not, you don't get to vote (at least directly). If you are registered, then ID requirements vary according to local regulations (photo ID, utility bill with correct name and address, signature verification, sometimes nothing at all).

    In the U.S., citizens are not required by law to carry government identification. Unless, of course, they are operating a motor vehicle, carrying a concealed weapon, or some such. You can walk down the street with no ID if you so please... no men in dark suits are allowed to accost you and ask: "Your papers, comrade?" (well, perhaps except in Arizona. . . . )

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    How can you deter legal votes from being cast if they cannot be legally are cast without ID?
    Read my post #94, and if that doesn't explain it then please reword your question (I'm having some difficulty deciphering).

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Read my post #94, and if that doesn't explain it then please reword your question (I'm having some difficulty deciphering).
    I understand. If it is illegal to cast a vote without ID, how can you stop legal voting unless you prevent someone from voting who has ID?

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Generally speaking, they have to register long before they can vote (say, 30 days). During the registration process they usually have to present some form of ID (photo is not necessarily required).

    When you go to vote, they check to see if you are registered to vote. If not, you don't get to vote (at least directly). If you are registered, then ID requirements vary according to local regulations (photo ID, utility bill with correct name and address, signature verification, sometimes nothing at all).

    In the U.S., citizens are not required by law to carry government identification. Unless, of course, they are operating a motor vehicle, carrying a concealed weapon, or some such. You can walk down the street with no ID if you so please... no men in dark suits are allowed to accost you and ask: "Your papers, comrade?" (well, perhaps except in Arizona. . . . )
    So is your issue that requiring someone to have an ID is a barrier to voting or is it that they shouldn't be asked to prove who they are? I am just trying to figure out where you are coming from.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    I understand. If it is illegal to cast a vote without ID, how can you stop legal voting unless you prevent someone from voting who has ID?
    It is not illegal to cast a vote without ID in many locations. Not all states have the same laws.

    The argument is that in a state where a photo ID is not currently required, some people who do not currently have a photo ID would not vote if the law was changed to require a photo ID. Even though they are legal to vote (they don't want to get, or cannot get, the ID -- which is not simple to get).

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    Re: DMV: 900 Dead People May Have Voted

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    So is your issue that requiring someone to have an ID is a barrier to voting or is it that they shouldn't be asked to prove who they are? I am just trying to figure out where you are coming from.
    The former.

    Although there are valid libertarian arguments to the latter (proving residence would be reasonable, but we're veering off into the weeds).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I admit that 2 of 7 could be reduced by a photo ID law (assuming they are actually occurring).

    Will you admit that a photo ID law would prevent more legal votes than illegal votes?
    Not at all. Its histrionic BS. People show ID for damn near everything. They show it to get basic services. The pretense that gosh...they just don't have any legal ID, and don't have it for every basic service, but would be responsible enough to vote is a joke. But if someone is really really truly incapable of getting an ID and registering and then voting, they should blame the ****heads that have made careers out of illegally registering people, contributing to the problem, an the ****heads they support and that support them.

    And as was seen in Florida 2002...every vote counts. Every legal citizen SHOULD vote. Legally

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