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Gay marriage a threat to humanity's future: Pope

Wessexman said:
Jesus is considered the consummation and fulfillment of the Law in its truest guise.

We choose in what way we view the Old Testament. We view it as laying the stage for Christ. Rabbianic Judaism has a very different approach. This means we interpret Old Testament laws and commands through this lens.

Mary is of the line of David, I believe. So is Joseph.
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I changed the quote. If Mary is of the line of David, I will relent on that point. But a true Jew would interpret the Bible literally.
 
MadLib said:
I changed the quote. If Mary is of the line of David, I will relent on that point. But a true Jew would interpret the Bible literally.
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I believe both are claimed from this line. The gospels are taken as claiming he is descended from David from both Mary and Joseph, Joseph being his father at law. Rather like Roman noble families who would adopt children from other noble families to continue their line and seemingly not blink an eye at the child or youth not being their biological offspring. But anyway the gospels are traditionally interpreted as showing Mary is of the line of David as well.
 
MadLib said:
You know, Jesus can't actually be the Messiah. From what I've heard, anyone who tries to change the laws of the Torah is a charlatan and not a Messiah.

So if you're going to ignore some of the Torah, then why not all of it?
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You move from "From what I've heard" to accepting as fact that some of the Torah has been ignored. Why bring up the Torah or David's line at all if you know little yourself and are relying on what you've heard and when you haven't done a little research yourself?
 
TheNextEra said:
He doesn't define himself that way. Why do you define yourself by ignorance?
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Definition of DEGENERACY
1
: the state of being degenerate
2
: the process of becoming degenerate


3
: sexual perversion


Homosexuality is degenerate. It is deviant and a perversion. That is a scientific fact.
​
 
ric27 said:
Definition of DEGENERACY
1
: the state of being degenerate
2
: the process of becoming degenerate


3
: sexual perversion


Homosexuality is degenerate. It is deviant and a perversion. That is a scientific fact.
​
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Cool that almost makes me want to turn gay
 
ric27 said:
Homosexuality is degenerate. It is deviant and a perversion. That is a scientific fact.
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sci·ence/ˈsīəns/Noun: 1.The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural...


fact/fakt/Noun: 1.A thing that is indisputably the case.


Now using those two definitions as the basis for your claim... please demostrate your statement as scientific fact... I dare you :lol:
 
ric27 said:
Definition of DEGENERACY
1
: the state of being degenerate
2
: the process of becoming degenerate


3
: sexual perversion


Homosexuality is degenerate. It is deviant and a perversion. That is a scientific fact.
​
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Wow, you're doing a great job of revealing how uneducated and irrational you are. You should stick with the blind hatred thing, you're better at it.
 
misterman said:
Wow, you're doing a great job of revealing how uneducated and irrational you are. You should stick with the blind hatred thing, you're better at it.
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Science is the standard for scientific fact. I posted the dictionary definition of degeneracy because apparently you needed it.

Like, I said before, the purpose of the reproductive drive is to reproduce. Homosexuality is in no way shape or form does that nor attempts to use the means for that purpose. It is a sexual perversion.

I don't care that somebody is homosexual. You can do whatever you want inside your house. I do care when there is a concerted demand that we all accept it as normal. It is not normal, it is abnormal.
 
The funny things is, he has to prove it is a perversion before he can declare dictionarian fact of science. That's where his circular logic bites his ass. Ass biting is definately perverted. Uh oh...
 
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ric27 said:
Science is the standard for scientific fact. I posted the dictionary definition of degeneracy because apparently you needed it.
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I don't even know where to begin with the absurdity of your thinking here.

Like, I said before, the purpose of the reproductive drive is to reproduce. Homosexuality is in no way shape or form does that nor attempts to use the means for that purpose. It is a sexual perversion.
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I dare you to give me an honest answer to these questions then:

Do you ever have sex in a way that couldn't lead to reproduction? Oral sex, for instance? Or even not during your partner's ovulation?

Do you oppose marriage of or sex among people who are known to be sterile? Or post-menopausal women?

I don't care that somebody is homosexual. You can do whatever you want inside your house. I do care when there is a concerted demand that we all accept it as normal. It is not normal, it is abnormal.
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What does "accept" mean? You don't have to accept anything. You can disapprove of anything you want just like others can do it. Enjoy your disapproving!
 
misterman said:
Do you oppose marriage of or sex among people who are known to be sterile? Or post-menopausal women?
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If he replies yes, I'll laugh again.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Guys, tone it down
 
That's dissapointing. The Catholic church does so many great things. The Pope might need a memo....The Vatican doesn't run the world anymore...that whole enlightenment thing happened and we're happy with a separation of the two.
 
The Pope is not the only religious leader to recently speak out about the dangers posed by gay marriage.

Nearly 40 religious leaders, including Catholic, evangelical, Jewish and Mormon figures, issued an open letter Thursday that argues that the battle against same-sex marriage is a fight on behalf of religious freedom.
Among the signatories of the Jan. 12 letter on marriage and religious freedom are leaders of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, the Anglican Church in North America, the Church of Jesus of Latter-day Saints, Agudath Israel of America, the Salvation Army, National Association of Evangelicals, Assemblies of God, the Wesleyan Church, the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference and Church of the Nazarene
Religious leaders: Gay marriage a 'peril' to liberty - Washington Times
 
jerry7 said:
The Pope is not the only religious leader to recently speak out about the dangers posed by gay marriage.

Nearly 40 religious leaders, including Catholic, evangelical, Jewish and Mormon figures, issued an open letter Thursday that argues that the battle against same-sex marriage is a fight on behalf of religious freedom.
Among the signatories of the Jan. 12 letter on marriage and religious freedom are leaders of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, the Anglican Church in North America, the Church of Jesus of Latter-day Saints, Agudath Israel of America, the Salvation Army, National Association of Evangelicals, Assemblies of God, the Wesleyan Church, the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference and Church of the Nazarene
Religious leaders: Gay marriage a 'peril' to liberty - Washington Times
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Just goes to prove the point that fundamentalist religion, be it Christian, Jewish or Islamic, is still the greatest threat to liberty in the world.
 
misterman said:
I dare you to give me an honest answer to these questions then:

Do you ever have sex in a way that couldn't lead to reproduction? Oral sex, for instance? Or even not during your partner's ovulation?

Do you oppose marriage of or sex among people who are known to be sterile? Or post-menopausal women?
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According to Catholic-Scholastic it is only if you aim to defeat the purpose of sexual procreation that you are being immoral. As long as the overall purpose is pursued then none of the above are considered immoral. It would be immoral if you married someone because they were sterile, but as long as the final cause of sexual intercourse, which is considered reproduction in the broadest sense of producing and bringing up healthy children, is not defeated through one's conscious or negligent actions then no sin is committed.
 
Andalublue said:
Just goes to prove the point that fundamentalist religion, be it Christian, Jewish or Islamic, is still the greatest threat to liberty in the world.
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You still haven't given a decent definition of fundamentalist. You appear to think it is any religious philosophy that doesn't give in to modern viewpoints. But why should they necessarily give in on these position? Doesn't this make you a fundamentalist, by narrowly and rigidly subordinating everything to unquestionable and unexamined, literal modern perspectives.
 
Leading a lifestyle of celibacy is more a threat to humanity...:)
 
Wessexman said:
You still haven't given a decent definition of fundamentalist. You appear to think it is any religious philosophy that doesn't give in to modern viewpoints. But why should they necessarily give in on these position? Doesn't this make you a fundamentalist, by narrowly and rigidly subordinating everything to unquestionable and unexamined, literal modern perspectives.
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fundamentalism (fun¦da|men¦tal|ism)

noun
[mass noun]

* a form of a religion, especially Islam or Protestant Christianity, that upholds belief in the strict, literal interpretation of scripture:
Source: OED
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That'll do for me, and given that I reject your religion, your denomination, your morals and your figurehead, your arguments mean nothing to me either. You may hold your fundamentalist (see definition) or your traditionalist (if you prefer) positions and leave me unaffected and unmoved. In rational terms and employing classical logic your and your pope's intellectual somersaults can't even aspire to the level of sophistry. Your response above to Misterman gives the impression that you're making this stuff up as you go along.

I've pretty much said all I'm going to say on this subject, but I would advise you to invest in a copy of the OED, it really would help.
 
jerry7 said:
The Pope is not the only religious leader to recently speak out about the dangers posed by gay marriage.

Nearly 40 religious leaders, including Catholic, evangelical, Jewish and Mormon figures, issued an open letter Thursday that argues that the battle against same-sex marriage is a fight on behalf of religious freedom.
Among the signatories of the Jan. 12 letter on marriage and religious freedom are leaders of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, the Anglican Church in North America, the Church of Jesus of Latter-day Saints, Agudath Israel of America, the Salvation Army, National Association of Evangelicals, Assemblies of God, the Wesleyan Church, the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference and Church of the Nazarene
Religious leaders: Gay marriage a 'peril' to liberty - Washington Times
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And in Taiwan, you can add Buddhist opposition to it...
 
Andalublue said:
That'll do for me, and given that I reject your religion, your denomination, your morals and your figurehead, your arguments mean nothing to me either. You may hold your fundamentalist (see definition) or your traditionalist (if you prefer) positions and leave me unaffected and unmoved.
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But that definition wouldn't include the Pope. Unless you are taking strict to mean anyone who holds to a religious philosophical viewpoint over any cherished principle of modernity. But then you actually have to argue why they should give up their viewpoint on this, not just demand it. That would make you the same as a proper fundamentalist, in many ways.
In rational terms and employing classical logic your and your pope's intellectual somersaults can't even aspire to the level of sophistry. Your response above to Misterman gives the impression that you're making this stuff up as you go along.
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Or maybe it is just you have not the first bit of understanding of Thomistic and Catholic thought. It is rather ironic you bring up classical logic, as the Catholic position is of course based on Aristotelian logic. I would do a bit of reading before you pontificate on others taking supposedly ad hoc positions;

SUMMA THEOLOGICA: Home
Amazon.com: Aquinas: A Beginner's Guide (Beginners Guide (Oneworld)) (9781851686902): Edward Feser: Books
http://www.amazon.com/Last-Superstition-Refutation-New-Atheism/dp/1587314525/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b
 
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jerry7 said:
The Pope is not the only religious leader to recently speak out about the dangers posed by gay marriage.

Nearly 40 religious leaders, including Catholic, evangelical, Jewish and Mormon figures, issued an open letter Thursday that argues that the battle against same-sex marriage is a fight on behalf of religious freedom.
Among the signatories of the Jan. 12 letter on marriage and religious freedom are leaders of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, the Anglican Church in North America, the Church of Jesus of Latter-day Saints, Agudath Israel of America, the Salvation Army, National Association of Evangelicals, Assemblies of God, the Wesleyan Church, the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference and Church of the Nazarene
Religious leaders: Gay marriage a 'peril' to liberty - Washington Times
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What a load of BS. This would be the case of the pro-Gay marriage wanted to force churches/other religious institutions to marry gay couples. This isn't the case. They want marriage as a CIVIL and LEGAL right.
 
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