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Thread: Gay marriage a threat to humanity's future: Pope

  1. #311
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Gay marriage a threat to humanity's future: Pope

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The child, in this case female and according to the natural order of things, has to know what a man and woman are doing. Again, it is the natural order of things. It is how we survive as a species.

    Two men kissing, do you look away?

    Do you understand why normal people find homosexuality repulsive? It's not an accident.
    thats a nice opinion but thats all it is

    theres people out there that find a black person and white person kissing repulsive?
    fat and ugly people kissing repulsive?
    Dogs and Cats living in your house could be repulsive!

    hell theres people out there that find a woman boss repulsive!

    should we not allow any of those things either

    whats you point? Logical you have none.
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    Re: Gay marriage a threat to humanity's future: Pope

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    But that definition wouldn't include the Pope.
    Pope is fundi. For one, he wears a funny hat. Robes... c'mon.


    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    ... it lacks dogma. The beauty of it is that it is an entirely personal journey, you can accept or reject almost any aspect of the teachings and no one will be condemning you or telling you that you are not a proper Buddhist. It is a practice and a search for truth, for how existence really is. You can avoid or seek out any sources of information on Buddhism you wish and agree with it or reject it according to how your heart and mind receive it.

    There is no idea that any of the scriptures are inerrant or divinely ordained. They are collections of wisdom to be received, pondered and used in one's practice if one finds them helpful...
    That's how I take Christianity. I was a militant atheist, now I'm metaphysical expression friendly. I learned a lot.

  3. #313
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    Re: Gay marriage a threat to humanity's future: Pope

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That's how I take Christianity. I was a militant atheist, now I'm metaphysical expression friendly. I learned a lot.
    Good for you! I'm sure you already know this, but of course it is not incompatible for a Buddhist to believe in God, creation, sin etc. but it's just that these concepts don't feature in Buddhist philosophy. I can't think of any reason why a Christian couldn't accept the Four Noble Truths.
    1. Life is dhukka - roughly, suffering. We are born, age, get ill and die.
    2. The cause of suffering is craving; craving for wealth, gratification, life.
    3. That there can be a cessation to suffering, to craving, and to reliance on it.
    4. The way to release oneself from it is by the Eightfold Path.

    I'm sure Christian theologists might have their own reasons for rejecting this, but belief in a God, from a Buddhist perspective, doesn't preclude understanding these basic truths.
    Last edited by Andalublue; 01-14-12 at 05:13 PM.
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  4. #314
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    Re: Gay marriage a threat to humanity's future: Pope

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Clearly you're no expert. Neither am I. I've only been studying and meditating for 12 years.

    There is as much if not a greater diversity of schools and denominations of Buddhism as there are of Christianity. There are schools who incorporate beliefs in deities into their Buddhism. There are others who don't necessarily believe in reincarnation. In order for anyone to take your statements on the philosophy seriously you'd need to be specific about what approaches you believe are 'trendy, liberal hippie' interpretations.

    You'll notice in this thread that I haven't made any attempt to argue Catholic theology with you. I'm not a Catholic and haven't studied Catholic theology, so I don't pontificate.

    It is not that difficult for anyone to understand the basic precepts of Buddhism. That tends to be quite a standard response from western non-Buddhist religious types. Of course the deepest questions of practice and understanding of existence are complicated and require study, meditation and education. All committed Buddhists, and of course all Masters past and present, recognise this. I have never encountered anyone who practices Buddhism arguing that it's "all good, man". Never. Perhaps you could quote some of these laissez-faire 'Buddhists'.
    Who has claimed it is 'anti-religious'? It's just that the word 'religious' doesn't really have any meaning in Buddhist terms. There are certainly many traditions in various schools of Buddhism who explore mystical ideas, however you want to define that word. There are no sins in the Buddhist tradition, merely actions, ideas and attitudes that help or hinder the search for truth and meaning.

    An excellent recommendation, but there are so, so many teachers and writers to choose from. I would particularly recommend Stephen Batchelor's Buddhism Without Belief, The Art of Just Sitting by John Daido Loori and Everyday Zen by Charlotte Joko Beck. I also recommend this site.... Buddhanet's Buddhist Studies.

    I think that because there is no concept of Buddhist orthodoxy, there is no conflict amongst Buddhist teachers, scholars, writers and practitioners about the 'right' and 'wrong' forms of Buddhist practice. There are as many forms as there are practitioners. In denigrating what you call 'trendy, liberal hippy' Buddhist practitioners, you show that you can't really come to terms with a philosophy without dogma, without theology, without orthodoxy. I suspect that is because you follow a religion for which these things are central.

    So be it.
    You appear to be talking sensibly and knowledgeably now. I was simply criticising the very liberal, trendy New age and Western approach to Buddhism you often find today. Much of what you are saying is not necessarily part of that view, except the idea there is as many forms as practitioners. I do not think this is the best way to put it, certainly everyone's spiritual journey, even in Christianity, is individual, but everyone also requires the support of a living religious form and tradition. If you completely try and turn such a religion into pick'n'mix then you will not get far. Apart from that I agree with most of what you have said.

    By the way, I'm not a Roman Catholic, but a high Church Anglican. I'm also something of a Platonic Christian. I find Buddhism harder to grasp in a way I don't Islam or Vedanta, though I'm of course no expert on these. Doctrines like 'no self' and the way Buddhist metaphysics expresses itself . Taoism is somewhat similar, it expresses itself in a way far harder to grasp than say Vedanta. And Western Taoists tend to be even worse than Western Buddhists, in my experience.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  5. #315
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    Re: Gay marriage a threat to humanity's future: Pope

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Good for you! I'm sure you already know this, but of course it is not incompatible for a Buddhist to believe in God, creation, sin etc. but it's just that these concepts don't feature in Buddhist philosophy. I can't think of any reason why a Christian couldn't accept the Four Noble Truths.
    1. Life is dhukka - roughly, suffering. We are born, age, get ill and die.
    2. The cause of suffering is craving; craving for wealth, gratification, life.
    3. That there can be a cessation to suffering, to craving, and to reliance on it.
    4. The way to release oneself from it is by the Eightfold Path.

    I'm sure Christian theologists might have their own reasons for rejecting this, but belief in a God, from a Buddhist perspective, doesn't preclude understanding these basic truths.
    Well, first off they aren't "truths", basic or otherwise. I always lose any inclination towards Buddhism with the the first premise "Life is suffering". It needn't be from a humanistic perspective, nor is it how an Abrahamic God would describe it.

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    Re: Gay marriage a threat to humanity's future: Pope

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    except the idea there is as many forms as practitioners.
    I'll respond to the whole post tomorrow. It's very late here now and the brain is not working at full capacity. I'd just comment on the above. The Lord Buddha said that every flower has a thousand blossoms and every blossom a thousand petals, but they all share the one same ground. That may be slightly paraphrasing, but the sense is accurate.

    I don't think I ever made the assumption that you were a Roman Catholic, but your frequent references to the importance of tradition suggested your are either Catholic or Orthodox.
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  7. #317
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    Re: Gay marriage a threat to humanity's future: Pope

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I'll respond to the whole post tomorrow. It's very late here now and the brain is not working at full capacity. I'd just comment on the above. The Lord Buddha said that every flower has a thousand blossoms and every blossom a thousand petals, but they all share the one same ground. That may be slightly paraphrasing, but the sense is accurate.
    The Christian can say this. One's relationship with God is personal and one's journey is individual. Some of the more mystical elements of Christianity, interested in the Imaginal realm between the psychic and the Intellectual, sometimes even talk of an individual angel once you raise your awareness to this realm, who guides you towards God. But it is important not to interpret this individuality in the sense of modern individualism. That would be to do damage the authentic spirituality of the Christian tradition, and no doubt the Buddhist one as well. Buddhist traditions don't tend to emphasis individualism in the modern sense, as far as I know, indeed far from it.

    I don't think I ever made the assumption that you were a Roman Catholic, but your frequent references to the importance of tradition suggested your are either Catholic or Orthodox.
    I am basically borderline Orthodox.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Gay marriage a threat to humanity's future: Pope

    I understand, from the Christian perspective, that it is wrong. However, I also understand we're not a theocracy...

  9. #319
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    Re: Gay marriage a threat to humanity's future: Pope

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    thats a nice opinion but thats all it is

    theres people out there that find a black person and white person kissing repulsive?
    fat and ugly people kissing repulsive?
    Dogs and Cats living in your house could be repulsive!

    hell theres people out there that find a woman boss repulsive!

    should we not allow any of those things either

    whats you point? Logical you have none.
    Have you ever had sex? With another person I mean?

    Wearing condoms is a choice. So is a vasectomy. Neither has anything to do with what I'm talking about.

    Not pleasure. The pleasure is there to make us want to reproduce. There is no sex drive - it is reproductive drive.

  10. #320
    I'm kind of a big deal

    AGENT J's Avatar
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    Re: Gay marriage a threat to humanity's future: Pope

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Have you ever had sex? With another person I mean?

    Wearing condoms is a choice. So is a vasectomy. Neither has anything to do with what I'm talking about.

    Not pleasure. The pleasure is there to make us want to reproduce. There is no sex drive - it is reproductive drive.
    some how I knew you would dodge the question because again theres no logic behind your stance.
    thanks LMAO
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