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Thread: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    You do recognize the difference between foreign and domestic investors purchasing US treasuries and the Federal Reserve purchasing treasuries, right?
    Go ahead and lay out your position if you think you have an argument there.

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    You tell me. Do the majority of Americans currently favor tax increases to fix the deficit?
    That's true, but that isn't because they like enjoy being taxed. It's because they're finally manning up and deciding it is time to bite the bullet and do the hard thing to get this budget under control.

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    It doesn't appear that you have a response to my argument. If raising or decreasing revenues determined how much we spend we wouldn't have a deficit that fluctuates between zero and $1.4 trillion. They aren't connected.
    I wasn't talking about generally, but in the idea of cutting the deficient/debt. If you increase revenues you can stand to spend more than you otherwise could without the increase. IS that not factual?

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    So by that logic, the Democrats are 100% responsible for the Federal Budget from 2006-2010 and the resulting economic collapse and record deficits? Every year, by law, the President is required to submit a budget to Congress. The irony is Obama's budget failed to even garner ONE VOTE in the Senate. All Republican and even Democratic-led budget proposals have consistently failed in the Senate. The Senate failed to even PROPOSE a budget in the first 2.5 years of the Obama presidency. To absolve Obama of all spending decisions is both dishonest and naive. You do realize the disconnect between blaming Bush for record spending and defending Obama by blaming Congress within the same paragraph, don't you?

    I never defended Bush and his spending policies. The fact you would even bring him into this argument shows your attempt at diverting from the fact that the Senate hasn't passed a budget in three years. Are you willing to admit this is irresponsible or not?



    Why not just accept the Republican's massive deficit reduction proposals instead of rejecting those, then threatening to destroy the economy in order to get their own preferred, smaller, deficit reduction proposals through? It's hilarious to me that those same soundbites were prominent throughout the 2008 Democratic campaign to criticize Bush for his deficits and spending. The fact that the Democrats would even pretend that they are being tough on the deficit is what sounds crazy. I'm not one to discount the Republicans political posturing as I find many of them to be doofuses, it just amuses me to see hyper-partisans like yourself attribute all failures in compromise on the side you disagree with.
    The President got his budget passed in 2006-2010. How does that make it the Dems responsibility? You logic is as flawed as Bush's. Reducing taxes while doubling spending does not work. If you don't believe me than how about the Cato Institute? When you combine the ridiculous spending of GW with the financial collapse and recession his policies brought us and you get the mess we are in now. Growing the GDP while putting tax rates back to pre 2000 levels will go a long way to getting things back on track.
    Govt. will always grow as the country grows, what has happened now is that one party is not responsible enough to handle the finances and now they want another go at "starvng the beast". It's not going to happen.

    The Grand Old Spending Party: How Republicans Became Big Spenders | Stephen Slivinski | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis
    Last edited by iguanaman; 01-12-12 at 07:06 PM.

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I wasn't talking about generally, but in the idea of cutting the deficient/debt. If you increase revenues you can stand to spend more than you otherwise could without the increase. IS that not factual?
    Maybe that is technically true, but it isn't relevant. The US could "stand" to spend several tens of trillions a year and accumulate hundreds of trillions in debt before it reached a point where it was unable to keep spending, so a few hundred billion, or even a trillion, more or less in revenues doesn't really change that line in any appreciable way.

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    The President got his budget passed in 2006-2010. How does that make it the Dems responsibility? You logic is as flawed as Bush's. Reducing taxes while doubling spending does not work. If you don't believe me than how about the Cato Institute? When you combine the ridiculous spending of GW with the financial collapse and recession his policies brought us you get the mess we are in now. Growing the GDP while putting tax rates back to pre 2000 levels will go a long way to getting things back on track.
    The Senate did not pass a budget in 2009-2010. I didn't make it all the Democrat's responsibility, I was following the logic laid out by teamosil that the Congress is responsible for spending. I never defended Bush's spending policies as I've already explicitly said in this thread. It is interesting to note, however, that revenues reached record levels soon after Bush's tax cuts were put into place.

    I won't address your claim that Bush's policies brought on the financial crisis. I always assumed it was the Democrat's position that it was Gramm-Leach Bliley and the evil financial institutions that created the financial crisis.
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    That's true, but that isn't because they like enjoy being taxed. It's because they're finally manning up and deciding it is time to bite the bullet and do the hard thing to get this budget under control.
    I never made the claim people enjoy being taxed. The "starve the beast" argument was that large deficits would shift populist opinion towards reducing spending.
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Not what I said. When you feed the beast in revenues they have more to spend. You assume much in your position here, not only about how economics works but how the organism works, but here I am only looking at the organism. The position is that if we increase taxes and cut little by little that the cuts will continue to happen and deficients will not increase. That is a bad assumption and a faith based idea.
    When you tank the economy and cut taxes which brings revenues down to 15% of GDP leaving govt. income at 2000 levels you get a big deficit. No amount of responsible spending cuts would have prevented that.

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    I never made the claim people enjoy being taxed. The "starve the beast" argument was that large deficits would shift populist opinion towards reducing spending.
    Actually it was meant as a way to kill Social Security and Medicare. Which is exactly what the GOP are trying to do now.

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    I never made the claim people enjoy being taxed. The "starve the beast" argument was that large deficits would shift populist opinion towards reducing spending.
    That doesn't really work logically. Say that they have a medium desire to reduce spending when the deficit is at a medium level and a high desire to reduce spending when the deficit is at a high level. Then when the deficit gets high they will jump up to high desire to reduce spending, but once it gets paid back down to a medium level, they'll just drop back to a medium level of desire to reduce spending. Trying to create problems because you want to make the public solve the problems you create is a ridiculous way to run a country.

    Random question- why do you have that quote as your sig? Does that mean you are pro-union or anti-union? It seems like just a matter of fact statement of what "right to work" laws do.

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