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Thread: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    Obviously not. Government will spend as much money as it is allowed to do so. It does lead to unpopular deficits, however, and politicians become more focused on how to fix them. Look no further than the bipartisan position of reducing federal spending.
    You think deficits are less popular than taxes? I'd say it's the other way around.

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    What's the right winger talking point? That we print money? Please tell me you aren't serious.
    How is borrowing money "printing money"...

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    How is borrowing money "printing money"...
    Printing money is printing money... is this a trick question?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Printing money is printing money... is this a trick question?
    What kiddo? Are you talking about actual printing of money? Like with a printing press? Or are you talking about borrowing money? If you're talking about physically printing bills, obviously you understand that they haven't changed anything with that. They print it based on rates that bills deteriorate and whatnot. If you're talking about borrowing money, and you're calling it "printing money", explain yourself.

    It doesn't make sense. It's just a right wing thing. They think "printing money" sounds more irresponsible than "borrowing money" so they decided to just call it that and all the yokels just go with it...

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Ahh "stave the beast" eh? Look around man. Does it seem to you like that is working? Does spending go down when revenues do?
    Not what I said. When you feed the beast in revenues they have more to spend. You assume much in your position here, not only about how economics works but how the organism works, but here I am only looking at the organism. The position is that if we increase taxes and cut little by little that the cuts will continue to happen and deficients will not increase. That is a bad assumption and a faith based idea.

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No, I wouldn't say it's 100% on either party ever. 2006-2008 the Democrats controlled Congress, but not the white house, so really only a plan that was at least palatable to both parties could be passed because of the veto. 2008-2010, that'd be mostly the Democrats, but the minority party always has a great deal of influence too as we saw for example with all the compromises the Democrats had to make to get health care through.
    Pardon me if I got the impression that you made Congress responsible for spending. To be consistent, they would be the ones responsible for the spending from 2006-2010, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Congress is who decides how much we spend.
    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Congress, after all, is the one who decides how much to spend.
    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    it's not me that tacks responsibility for spending on the Congress. That's the constitution that does that. And for very good reasons. That is supposed to be the primary check on the executive.
    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The executive branch spends as directed by Congress and lets them know when they owe more.


    "Resulting"? The economic collapse wasn't caused by the deficit. Obviously. There are three main theories for what caused it. 1) Too many ARM home loans, rates went up, they got called in, people panicked. 2) Too much money going to the rich to spur investment, not enough going to working people to provide the actual revenues required to sustain the puffed up valuations created by all the investment. 3) Hi finance hijinx. In reality it's probably a combination of all three along with a hundred other less central causes.
    Resulting was a poor choice of words, I meant to say resulting deficits. The economic collapse was in no way attributable to the federal deficit.

    I'm not. You seem to be stuck in the standard conservative binary thinking mode. Both parties share the blame. I keep saying that over and over.
    Once again, pardon me if I got the impression that you made Congress responsible for spending. Thanks for the cheap shot though, I appreciate it.

    Er what? None of those things make sense in reverse. The Democrats didn't threaten to destroy the economy and their deficit reduction proposals are larger, not smaller...
    Really? Can you link me the Democrat's proposed deficit reduction plan that was larger than the Ryan budget? Democrats knew, as Republicans did, that if a compromised wasn't reached that the debt ceiling would not be raised, in your parlance, "destroy the economy". Failure to compromise is a reflection of the failure of leadership; something Obama demonstrated quite well by remaining on the sidelines.
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    What kiddo? Are you talking about actual printing of money? Like with a printing press? Or are you talking about borrowing money? If you're talking about physically printing bills, obviously you understand that they haven't changed anything with that. They print it based on rates that bills deteriorate and whatnot. If you're talking about borrowing money, and you're calling it "printing money", explain yourself.

    It doesn't make sense. It's just a right wing thing. They think "printing money" sounds more irresponsible than "borrowing money" so they decided to just call it that and all the yokels just go with it...
    You do recognize the difference between foreign and domestic investors purchasing US treasuries and the Federal Reserve purchasing treasuries, right?
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Not what I said. When you feed the beast in revenues they have more to spend. You assume much in your position here, not only about how economics works but how the organism works, but here I am only looking at the organism. The position is that if we increase taxes and cut little by little that the cuts will continue to happen and deficients will not increase. That is a bad assumption and a faith based idea.
    It doesn't appear that you have a response to my argument. If raising or decreasing revenues determined how much we spend we wouldn't have a deficit that fluctuates between zero and $1.4 trillion. They aren't connected.

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You think deficits are less popular than taxes? I'd say it's the other way around.
    You tell me. Do the majority of Americans currently favor tax increases to fix the deficit?
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    Pardon me if I got the impression that you made Congress responsible for spending. To be consistent, they would be the ones responsible for the spending from 2006-2010, no?
    You're just thinking too simplistically about it. You're looking for answers like "it is the Republicans fault" or "it is the Democrats fault" or "it is either the president's fault or Congress's fault"... It's binary thinking. The most glaring of all the flaws in the way Republicans reason...

    In reality, Congress has probably 75% control over the budget, the executive 25%. The executive can veto a budget, he starts the ball rolling with his proposal, he can use the bully pulpit, etc, but Congress makes the final decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    Really? Can you link me the Democrat's proposed deficit reduction plan that was larger than the Ryan budget? Democrats knew, as Republicans did, that if a compromised wasn't reached that the debt ceiling would not be raised, in your parlance, "destroy the economy". Failure to compromise is a reflection of the failure of leadership; something Obama demonstrated quite well by remaining on the sidelines.
    For example, during the debt ceiling hostage crisis, the Republicans proposed $3 trillion, Obama proposed $4 trillion. During the super committee the Republicans were pushing for a $2 trillion plan, where the Democrats were pushing for $3 trillion.

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