Page 6 of 12 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 117

Thread: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

  1. #51
    Skeptical Optimist
    Rhapsody1447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Seen
    09-20-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1,510

    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Neither party seemed to care about spending until recently. I'd agree that the Republicans probably drew attention to the issue first, but now the Democrats have gone further with it than the Republicans are willing to go.

    That said, not passing a budget doesn't mean spending increases, it means it stays the same. Passing a budget those years could very well have meant more spending.
    The uproar over current government spending started in 2009 with the Tea Party and extended to the 2010 election where the movement won major gains in the House. Just like the current uproar over money in politics began with the OWS movement. Not passing a budget means no accountability or plan for current or future spending. It does not mean spending stays the same, legislation is passed and spending is incurred without any plan to account for. The federal government will spend to their limit no matter what, passing a budget at least allows for a goalpost to be set.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post

    Maybe you misunderstand that quote. He's not saying you shouldn't raise the debt ceiling, he is saying that you shouldn't spend so much that you have to raise it. Certainly he has always opposed defaulting on the debt.
    Maybe you should take your wingnut goggles off. He explicitly says he will be voting against the debt ceiling increase. Saying that you shouldn't spend so much that you have to raise it is exactly what Republicans in the house are saying. The House was fully intent on raising the debt ceiling as long as it was accompanied by spending cuts. That's how the deal got done in the end.
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

  2. #52
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    The uproar over current government spending started in 2009 with the Tea Party and extended to the 2010 election where the movement won major gains in the House. Just like the current uproar over money in politics began with the OWS movement. Not passing a budget means no accountability or plan for current or future spending. It does not mean spending stays the same, legislation is passed and spending is incurred without any plan to account for. The federal government will spend to their limit no matter what, passing a budget at least allows for a goalpost to be set.
    A continuing resolution is basically the same thing as a budget. It just takes the numbers from the previous budget and keeps them the same, maybe with an increase for inflation. Whether there is a budget in place or a continuing resolution, the Congress is still always free to pass additional spending increases or reductions as they see fit. Passing a budget doesn't change that at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    Maybe you should take your wingnut goggles off. He explicitly says he will be voting against the debt ceiling increase.
    Hmm, that is true that he voted against raising it. But the failure of leadership he is talking about is the spending, not the paying of the debt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    Saying that you shouldn't spend so much that you have to raise it is exactly what Republicans in the house are saying. The House was fully intent on raising the debt ceiling as long as it was accompanied by spending cuts. That's how the deal got done in the end.
    Why not address it with compromise legislation instead of resorting the threatening to destroy the economy to try to get their way? The hostage situation approach cost us many billions because it forced the credit rating to be dropped. The Republicans have turned down two different $3 trillion deficit reduction plans the Democrats have proposed now, so the claim that they need to threaten to blow up the country to get the Democrats to the negotiating table is obviously false, right? They're the ones refusing to negotiate.

  3. #53
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,602

    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I'm going to assume that you are fully aware that the health care reform package actually reduces the deficit and that you're just playing like you didn't know that for dramatic effect....
    You honestly believe that. You actually believe that a bill passed a few years ago with services that wont even kick in for another few years, with an uncertain benefit to unknown participants...in the hands of the fed...is going to reduce the deficit and cut costs. Thats hilarious. Well...no...sad...tragic...it pretty much explains why the nation is in such a financial hole...but...still...a LITTLE funny. Whats the OP again? Whats the debt ceiling at?

  4. #54
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You honestly believe that. You actually believe that a bill passed a few years ago with services that wont even kick in for another few years, with an uncertain benefit to unknown participants...in the hands of the fed...is going to reduce the deficit and cut costs.
    Of course it will. It includes new taxes that more than cover the costs even without the public option. The public option would have been the big cost saver, but that didn't pass. So we're covering the costs with taxes. You were aware of that, no?

  5. #55
    Skeptical Optimist
    Rhapsody1447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Last Seen
    09-20-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1,510

    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    A continuing resolution is basically the same thing as a budget. It just takes the numbers from the previous budget and keeps them the same, maybe with an increase for inflation. Whether there is a budget in place or a continuing resolution, the Congress is still always free to pass additional spending increases or reductions as they see fit. Passing a budget doesn't change that at all.
    Right and the continuing resolutions passed held zero reductions in federal spending until Republicans took the House in 2011. If Congress wants to pass additional spending increases over the federal budget they have to pass new appropriations legislation. Harry Reid and the Democratic Senate have refused to pass a budget and voted down all House proposals for a budget because it is politically profitable for them to do so. Harry Reid has come out and publicly said he has no interest in passing a Democratic budget. There's no way even you can dismiss that irresponsibility.

    Hmm, that is true that he voted against raising it. But the failure of leadership he is talking about is the spending, not the paying of the debt.
    And sweet irony is to be had by all. By definition, Obama is admitting his own failure here.

    Why not address it with compromise legislation instead of resorting the threatening to destroy the economy to try to get their way? The hostage situation approach cost us many billions because it forced the credit rating to be dropped. The Republicans have turned down two different $3 trillion deficit reduction plans the Democrats have proposed now, so the claim that they need to threaten to blow up the country to get the Democrats to the negotiating table is obviously false, right? They're the ones refusing to negotiate.
    The whole point of the process was to introduce compromise legislation. By not rubber-stamping the debt ceiling increase, budget negotiations began. Do you really think the issue would have been debated seriously if there wasn't political leverage to do so? One needs to look no further then the deliberate attempt of abstaining from a budget in the first place. Please link me to deficit reduction plans passed by the Congress in the first two years while they maintained majorities in both houses. Please show me the Democratic budgets proposed to rein in federal spending prior to the debt ceiling debacle in 2011.

    Unfortunately, compromise failed up until the last minute. You can accuse the side you disagree with all you want, it doesn't excuse the failure of leadership throughout the process. And ironically, the credit downgrade didn't cost us a dime. Interest rates continued to plummet before and after the downgrade.
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

  6. #56
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    54,602

    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Of course it will. It includes new taxes that more than cover the costs even without the public option. The public option would have been the big cost saver, but that didn't pass. So we're covering the costs with taxes. You were aware of that, no?
    Hows Medicare doing? Social Security?

    yeah boy...this is going to go well.

  7. #57
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 03:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,458

    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Of course it will. It includes new taxes that more than cover the costs even without the public option. The public option would have been the big cost saver, but that didn't pass. So we're covering the costs with taxes. You were aware of that, no?
    Feeding the organism lowers debt? Does the wealth it takes and gives back also a positive return?

    Seriously, you know that is a dream.

  8. #58
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    Right and the continuing resolutions passed held zero reductions in federal spending until Republicans took the House in 2011. If Congress wants to pass additional spending increases over the federal budget they have to pass new appropriations legislation. Harry Reid and the Democratic Senate have refused to pass a budget and voted down all House proposals for a budget because it is politically profitable for them to do so. Harry Reid has come out and publicly said he has no interest in passing a Democratic budget. There's no way even you can dismiss that irresponsibility.
    To try to paint it as though Democrats are and have been trying to spend like crazy while Republicans have always been trying to reel it in is obviously not an accurate description, right? Bush2 was in the whitehouse while the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress for 6 years. They used that time to turn the surplus and booming economy they got from Clinton into a massive deficit and economic collapse. Even now the Republicans refuse to accept the largest deficit reduction proposals which are consistently coming from Democrats, not Republicans.

    Whichever party doesn't have the white house likes to use slogans about how the opposite party president is spending too much, but that isn't the reality. The reality is that Congress, not the president, decides how much to spend and both parties tend to make the calculation that they would lose more votes by cutting programs people like than they would by doing nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    The whole point of the process was to introduce compromise legislation. By not rubber-stamping the debt ceiling increase, budget negotiations began. Do you really think the issue would have been debated seriously if there wasn't political leverage to do so?
    Why not just accept the Democrat's massive deficit reduction proposals instead of rejecting those, then threatening to destroy the economy in order to get their own preferred, smaller, deficit reduction proposals through? IMO it's just posturing. They're looking to get soundbites they can put in their ads that make it sound like they're being tough on the deficit and the Democrats are trying to spend like crazy.

  9. #59
    Sage
    teamosil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Last Seen
    05-22-14 @ 12:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    6,623

    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Feeding the organism lowers debt? Does the wealth it takes and gives back also a positive return?

    Seriously, you know that is a dream.
    Huh? Of course. Deficit = spending - revenue.

  10. #60
    Noblesse oblige
    Ockham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    01-27-17 @ 07:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    23,909
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Er what? No... As I keep saying over and over, we only have one viable choice for reducing spending- by actually reducing spending. Just refusing to pay for stuff we spent just makes things worse. Owing creditors $2 trillion for bonds or whatever is much better than owing the same creditors $2 trillion that you just refuse to pay.
    That's what happens when you promise to pay and you can't pay... you default. That's reality - it's time we had a dose of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Yeah that's right. So just trying to handicap Congress's ability to act doesn't reduce government or reduce spending, it just randomizes it. Reductions in some places, increases in others, at random.
    You keep using the word "randomize"... there's nothing random about it. it's very focused actually - especially the examples I provided.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


Page 6 of 12 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •