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Thread: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

  1. #11
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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No, the deal struck was that the Republicans agreed to raise the limit but only if it was structured in such a way that it would need to be raised again prior to the next presidential election. That was the main "get" they got. They believe that will undermine Obama's re-election chances. Personally I think it could end up undermining their own election chances if they handle it remotely like they did last time.
    Not if I remember correctly.

    A debt ceiling increase of between $2.1 trillion and $2.4 trillion: The framework will raise the debt ceiling immediately by $400 billion, then by another $500 billion after September.
    After deep cuts are enacted by the end of the year, it will be increased by another $1.2 trillion to $1.5 trillion.
    All told, the increases should cover the Treasury's borrowing needs until 2013
    Debt ceiling: What the deal will do - Aug. 1, 2011

    2:37



    The agreement was sealed late Sunday after weeks of acrimonious debate. If approved by the Senate, it would raise the $14.3 trillion debt limit by at least $2.1 trillion, including the immediate $400 billion released upon Obama’s signature. An additional $500 billion would come in the fall, unless two-thirds of both chambers of Congress voted to prevent it. The final increase, which would occur early next year, would provide the Treasury with sufficient borrowing power to pay the bills into early 2013.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...VnI_story.html
    Last edited by Rhapsody1447; 01-10-12 at 10:56 PM.
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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    Not if I remember correctly.
    I think it's consistent with what your source says:

    it would raise the $14.3 trillion debt limit by at least $2.1 trillion, including the immediate $400 billion released upon Obama’s signature. An additional $500 billion would come in the fall, unless two-thirds of both chambers of Congress voted to prevent it. The final increase, which would occur early next year, would provide the Treasury with sufficient borrowing power to pay the bills into early 2013.
    So here we are, "early next year". Of the $2.1 trillion, the $900 billion worth of increases happened on schedule- $400b and $500b. That leaves $1.2 trillion, which is what he is asking for now. Right on schedule, no?

    That Obama be forced to ask for, and for the Congress to debate, whether or not to allow this $1.2 trillion is the concession to the Republicans. The Democrats wanted to make this one automatic too, like the other ones, so that it wouldn't come up again until after the election. The Republicans wanted another fight about it before the election. They're hoping the public doesn't realize that they staged it, or that it is Congress, not the president, that decides how much we spend, and that they'll just walk away thinking "that Obama is always asking for money!"... The Democrats gave in on that, so here we are. Personally I don't think the majority of voters are that ignorant though. They seem to be starting to pick up on the GOP's hijinx more and more.
    Last edited by teamosil; 01-10-12 at 11:19 PM.

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I think it's consistent with what your source says:



    So here we are, "early next year". Of the $2.1 trillion, the $900 billion worth of increases happened on schedule- $400b and $500b. That leaves $1.2 trillion, which is what he is asking for now. Right on schedule, no?

    That Obama be forced to ask for, and for the Congress to debate, whether or not to allow this $1.2 trillion is the concession to the Republicans. The Democrats wanted to make this one automatic too, like the other ones, so that it wouldn't come up again until after the election. The Republicans wanted another fight about it before the election. The Democrats gave in on that, so here we are.
    Yes, read the OP:

    The remaining funds buffer to be granted of just $300 billion was originally intended to last the US until after the presidential election. Even if the $1.2 trillion count begins anew after this request, it still means the debt ceiling will be breached sometime in August/September (assuming a $180 billion gross issuance per month). It seems likely this issue may flare up at the worst possible time for Obama; a few months before the election. What impact this will have on his reelection campaign remains to be seen.
    This is the final increase, occurring on just Jan 10th, and if borrowing continues at the same rate of the past 5 months the funds won't make it to the election.
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhapsody1447 View Post
    This is the final increase, occurring on just Jan 10th, and if borrowing continues at the same rate of the past 5 months the funds won't make it to the election.
    Oh! Sorry, ok, I get what you're saying. But you're missing something. Raising the debt ceiling kept getting pushed back so the treasury had to use all kinds of fancy tricks to move things around to put off paying what it owed as long as possible. As soon as that initial raise kicked in most of it was due to catch them back up. So, that is really the debt acquired over the couple of additional months during which they haggled about raising it.

    But, even without that, projecting the debt that will need to be taken out by extrapolating from a partial year isn't accurate. The debt comes due in irregular cycles. They issue a bunch of bonds that become payable on a specific date, then when those expire they need to sell new bonds to cover them. There are many large bills that come due at random dates throughout the year. Some expenditures- for example salaries- are regularly spread throughout the year, but many are not. Also, revenues also trickle in at fairly random times, not spread evenly across the calendar. So, one month we might get $200 billion in because that is when the quarterly taxes come due for independent contractors and cover all our expenses with that, where the next month we might need to borrow to cover the expenses. And so on.

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I think it's consistent with what your source says:

    That Obama be forced to ask for, and for the Congress to debate, whether or not to allow this $1.2 trillion is the concession to the Republicans. The Democrats wanted to make this one automatic too, like the other ones, so that it wouldn't come up again until after the election. The Republicans wanted another fight about it before the election. They're hoping the public doesn't realize that they staged it, or that it is Congress, not the president, that decides how much we spend, and that they'll just walk away thinking "that Obama is always asking for money!"... The Democrats gave in on that, so here we are. Personally I don't think the majority of voters are that ignorant though. They seem to be starting to pick up on the GOP's hijinx more and more.
    This is the most helpful article I can find:

    The agreement foresees a $900 billion debt-ceiling increase, but in two phases. The first is an automatic $400 billion increase in the debt ceiling, which should last about two months. Another $500 billion increase could only be blocked by a congressional resolution of disapproval.

    But if the cuts are anything under $1.2 trillion, the debt-ceiling increase would be $1.2 trillion, and the government would be forced to cut $1.2 trillion in spending at a minimum. Each of these possible increases would be subject to congressional disapproval.
    Details of debt-ceiling deal emerge - The Hill's Floor Action

    So Obama is not forced to ask for, and Congress debate over whether to allow this $1.2 trillion increase. The increase is the same as the round of $500 billion in that it is automatic, subject to a congressional resolution of disapproval. This is why the WH doesn't expect any problem with the increase next week. The deal would need be renegotiated once that $1.2 trillion runs out. I don't remember this being a concession by the Democrats at the time and have have trouble finding a source that details that fight. I do remember early versions of the bill by Republicans requiring a new bill within six months to raise the debt ceiling but that was ultimately abandoned on the hope that the final bill would provide funding until 2013.
    "There is an excellent correlation between giving society what it wants and making money, and almost no correlation between the desire to make money and how much money one makes." ~Dalio

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Moderator's Warning:
    Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'Threads merged

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    On average, this administration is deficit spending at a rate of 4,248,506,074.72 per day.

    At that rate, they will spend the 1.2 trillion in 235 days.


    Overspending in 2009 was 1.6 trillion, 2010 was 1.7 trillion, and 2011 was 1.2 trillion. So its possible, that the 1.2 trillion would last the whole year.

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    I'd bet my entire life savings that if a Republican wins the election in 2012, he will raise the debt ceiling during his first term, most likely in the first year or two.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    I'd bet my entire life savings that if a Republican wins the election in 2012, he will raise the debt ceiling during his first term, most likely in the first year or two.
    I will be my life savings that if a Demacrat witns the election in2012, they will raise the debt ceiling during the first term. Heck it will be done if its a Repub.

    till Congress gets its act togeather and quit spending money we don't have we will be in debt.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: Obama to ask for increase to debt ceiling in a 'matter of days'

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    I will be my life savings that if a Demacrat witns the election in2012, they will raise the debt ceiling during the first term. Heck it will be done if its a Repub.

    till Congress gets its act togeather and quit spending money we don't have we will be in debt.
    Yep. Don't hold your breath, because you will never see Congress cut funding for one project without increasing funding for another. And the second tax revenue increases, you can be sure someone will make the statement that "because revenue is increasing, we can now do....."

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