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Thread: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Whoa. It was you who first raised the point that they were somehow not constant, and therefore using your unsupported point to give some perverted credibility to the drop in LFPR, other than the obvious.

    If you are now claiming that it is the poor job situation at the root of it all, then we are in agreement. It also means that our unemployment rate is a farce as reported, as when we face such negative times, it does not accurately reflect what is really happening.
    Some of those things are not constant.

    People are coming up with new ways every day to claim disability. And some very legitimate claims now get brought up to the government because those with the problems no longer have a job.

    My Disability Blog: Why Do Social Security Disability Claims Increase In A Bad Economy?

    More and more military personnel are getting out/being put out of the military. Most of those are eligible for the 9/11 GI bill which pays more than many min. wage jobs just for housing (tuition is paid for separately, plus there is a book stipend and many qualify for Pell grant, which they get to keep). Such a good incentive for military vets to go to college after their service has never existed. Even the previous GI Bills only really paid for schooling, with very little left over, if any, for expenses.

    Enrollment in college increased 38% from '99 to '09 where it only increased 9% from '89 to '99. College enrollment is still increasing right now. There is nothing "constant" about this.

    Community Colleges Enrollment Drops, Pell Grants Increase - College Bound - Education Week
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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Not a fan of Brooks, but he has a point. Why is it that you think that instead of doing what Obama said he was going to do in the form of going through things line by line, he has only made them more onerous, more restrictive, and created new agencies that are redundant in their mission, that lends the very uncertainty that business claims is one of the problems they face in making the decision to hire?

    j-mac
    I'm not entirely sure and correct me if I'm wrong but the majority of new regulations stem form healthcare reform and financial reform? If that's the case...a financial collapse and the problems in our healthcare industry warrant additional regulations. Now of course, nothing should be too onerous. I'm more of a fan anyway of structural changes to both of those industries than layers of compliance. I think both of those bills are trying to do that.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I'm not entirely sure and correct me if I'm wrong but the majority of new regulations stem form healthcare reform and financial reform? If that's the case...a financial collapse and the problems in our healthcare industry warrant additional regulations. Now of course, nothing should be too onerous. I'm more of a fan anyway of structural changes to both of those industries than layers of compliance. I think both of those bills are trying to do that.
    Well, as Boo says and he has a point about specificity. The problem I see with laws like HC, and Dodd/Frank are that the bills themselves were so large, over 2000 pages in the case of HC, that things were inserted into these laws that are indeed damaging, and we won't know until they blow like roadside bombs to our economy.

    The part where I disagree with Boo, and Adam are in the barraging that those of us who think that less regulation would ease the pressure on business, should list every regulation that we think is out of whack, and list why, with cites, and explanations as to what we would do to correct these regulations. Look people, I am just a truck driver, and even if I could stay awake long enough to research every regulation that exists, I certainly wouldn't endeavor such an undertaking for anonymous internet message board liberals who either wouldn't read what I had to say, or would dismiss that kind of hard work with an Alinsky style personal attack anyway.

    DC has teams of people going through regulations on a day in day out basis, and they work full time at this. IOW, I think in here we set the bar too high so as to discourage the conversation in the first place.

    to get back around to your point, the very regulation in HC for example has business scared to death...And Dodd/Frank has banks locking up capital tighter than Ft. Knox. So are these good things?

    j-mac
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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well, as Boo says and he has a point about specificity. The problem I see with laws like HC, and Dodd/Frank are that the bills themselves were so large, over 2000 pages in the case of HC, that things were inserted into these laws that are indeed damaging, and we won't know until they blow like roadside bombs to our economy.

    The part where I disagree with Boo, and Adam are in the barraging that those of us who think that less regulation would ease the pressure on business, should list every regulation that we think is out of whack, and list why, with cites, and explanations as to what we would do to correct these regulations. Look people, I am just a truck driver, and even if I could stay awake long enough to research every regulation that exists, I certainly wouldn't endeavor such an undertaking for anonymous internet message board liberals who either wouldn't read what I had to say, or would dismiss that kind of hard work with an Alinsky style personal attack anyway.

    DC has teams of people going through regulations on a day in day out basis, and they work full time at this. IOW, I think in here we set the bar too high so as to discourage the conversation in the first place.

    to get back around to your point, the very regulation in HC for example has business scared to death...And Dodd/Frank has banks locking up capital tighter than Ft. Knox. So are these good things?

    j-mac
    My intent is really not to discourage a critical review of regulations. I've been in business long enough to know how ****ed up they can be. But at the end of the day someone really does have to sit down and sift through them in order to straighten the mess out.

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Some of those things are not constant.

    People are coming up with new ways every day to claim disability. And some very legitimate claims now get brought up to the government because those with the problems no longer have a job.

    My Disability Blog: Why Do Social Security Disability Claims Increase In A Bad Economy?

    More and more military personnel are getting out/being put out of the military. Most of those are eligible for the 9/11 GI bill which pays more than many min. wage jobs just for housing (tuition is paid for separately, plus there is a book stipend and many qualify for Pell grant, which they get to keep). Such a good incentive for military vets to go to college after their service has never existed. Even the previous GI Bills only really paid for schooling, with very little left over, if any, for expenses.

    Enrollment in college increased 38% from '99 to '09 where it only increased 9% from '89 to '99. College enrollment is still increasing right now. There is nothing "constant" about this.

    Community Colleges Enrollment Drops, Pell Grants Increase - College Bound - Education Week
    I think I need to ask you why you are pursuing excuses for shrinkage of the LFPR that cannot be measured, while ignoring the Occam's Razor (simple and obvious) explanation ?

    The average household lost 20% of its net worth with this recession. A recession caused 100% by government, btw. Not Wall Street. Not predatory lenders. Just plain Government. For folks to voluntarily leave the labor force, that is to forego earning a paycheck, the only positive reason would be that things are so good that the average American household is well-off enough for the wife to stay at home, kids go to college instead of working, take a vacation instead of working, take early retirement instead of working, etc. We know for a fact that the cumulative effects of the bad economy worked against all those scenarios. Nothing of leisure was enabled by this recession.

    It is that simple. The shrink of the LFPR is all linked to a bad economy. It is a statistical anomaly that helps keep a terrible situation from appearing terrible on paper. But its still terrible at everyone's dinner table.

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    A recession caused 100% by government, btw. Not Wall Street. Not predatory lenders. Just plain Government.
    Wow, that's an amazing observation!

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Wow, that's an amazing observation!
    Thanks, but it only takes a little research by oneself, and common sense.

    Check it out.

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Thanks, but it only takes a little research by oneself, and common sense.

    Check it out.
    I guess you missed the sarcasm.

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    to get back around to your point, the very regulation in HC for example has business scared to death...And Dodd/Frank has banks locking up capital tighter than Ft. Knox. So are these good things?
    I think they are inevitable. I think any time any new large scale regulation is instituted it does create some degree of uncertainty. I also don't think that's a reason we shouldn't do it. When faced with a near collapse of our financial industry...that is much more costly exponentially than any new cost of regulation introduced. Companies will complain with any regulation introduced because no business likes regulation. Even when it benefits them. They fought Sarbanes-Oxley tooth and nail but since implemented it's created more confidence it corporate reporting and something that was rampant (fudging financial numbers) as of now isn't a major issue anymore.

    We were on the brink of collapse and the US government can't be counted on to inject trillions into the banking structure.

    As for Healthcare reform...that's a huge debate on it's own. No matter what your views on it, for those that passed it and support it, it's worth the costs.

    I also don't think corporations are being honest. At the end of the day our problems stem from most Americans over their head in debt, seing their paychecks remain stagnant, and their largest asset deteriorate in value. If consumers are buying business is hiring. Look at recently...same environment, consumers are purchasing, and business is hiring.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I think they are inevitable. I think any time any new large scale regulation is instituted it does create some degree of uncertainty. I also don't think that's a reason we shouldn't do it. When faced with a near collapse of our financial industry...that is much more costly exponentially than any new cost of regulation introduced. Companies will complain with any regulation introduced because no business likes regulation. Even when it benefits them. They fought Sarbanes-Oxley tooth and nail but since implemented it's created more confidence it corporate reporting and something that was rampant (fudging financial numbers) as of now isn't a major issue anymore.

    We were on the brink of collapse and the US government can't be counted on to inject trillions into the banking structure.

    As for Healthcare reform...that's a huge debate on it's own. No matter what your views on it, for those that passed it and support it, it's worth the costs.

    I also don't think corporations are being honest. At the end of the day our problems stem from most Americans over their head in debt, seing their paychecks remain stagnant, and their largest asset deteriorate in value. If consumers are buying business is hiring. Look at recently...same environment, consumers are purchasing, and business is hiring.
    Since several have thrown out this notion that the housing bubble was due to under-regulation, a reminder or two for those who care to research it.

    1) The "bubble" was the foundation of all things "collapse" with housing. If there was no bubble, there's no trouble. The bubble was the unnatural creation of government, beginning in the late 90's, with both the emergence of Fannie and Freddie as the overwhelmingly largest players in the mortgage market (50%), and our own Federal Government suing the major lenders to take-on more sub-primes. All of that is exceedingly well-documented. Once inflation in housing was off and running (the bubble), then everyone got a finger in the pie, which is completely to be expected ! They did not create the wave though. They only rode what government created.

    2) Fannie and Freddie were exempted from oversight by Dodd-Frank.

    Now the government, which caused the problem, says that they are the cure. And many liberals agree.

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