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Thread: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    As for the statutory rate, yeah, we're higher, when including total taxation and what companies really pay in taxes....we're pretty low.

    As for "because I say so"....not it's not. You pick the weakest European countries and say "see....look what labor unions and regulation does". You ignore countries with higher per capita income or higher per capita GDP's.
    Nope. You praised Europe, to the point of saying that they were collectively doing better than the US, and challenged me to explain how their "burden" was not a hindrance while I claimed that ours was. Fact is that collective Europe is currently doing worse. Their Euro has dropped in more value in the last 3 months than has our dollar. Our markets still hinge on the "latest our of Europe". France faces downgrade. As bad of an investment as the US may be, we are doing OK because Europe is currently worse.

    That Germany is far better off, and is in fact a net exporter, would be to look to the premier economic role model in Europe. I guarantee you that they have a superior government model when it comes to economic interface.


    No...I said Labor Unions were not going to make us competitive with China not that it's not a factor in business decisions. The problem is people like Rick Perry or conservatives that are anti-Union are trying to sell this idea that Labor Unions are the reason factories are going to China....that's not the case. Breaking Labor Unions will not create this massive economic boom.
    It is absolutely a reason. It is the main reason that the US Big 3 ain't so big anymore. You already noted labor cost as the usual highest cost of production. When you compare unuion anything to non-union anything, you will see the labor differentials. To claim that is not a factor is to ifnore what is on the plate, IMMHO

    Further, no one says Unions are THE problem. Many say that they are one of the problems though.

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I can agree with this, in so far as Labor Union deterrent by itself is not a sole reason for a business to decline a specific state for consideration, however, when you consider, taxation in the form of repatriation of profit from off shore to an on shore establishment, burdensome regulation coming from every, and any direction make it so though.

    j-mac
    Everything is comparative. Starting a company in China is a mess. There is the corruption to deal with...and they do have massive amounts of permits to fill out. As for unions...they do have the largest trade union in the world. At the end of the day, the people who are winning manufactorers (in my view) are not due to the perfect business envinroment but borderline unlivable wages.

    I don't think overreacting and declaring war on labor unions or tearing up regulations is what is called for. Our future won't be competiting with China for low wage jobs. We can't...unless we're willing to really create 2 Americas (even more so than now).
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Everything is comparative. Starting a company in China is a mess. There is the corruption to deal with...and they do have massive amounts of permits to fill out. As for unions...they do have the largest trade union in the world. At the end of the day, the people who are winning manufactorers (in my view) are not due to the perfect business envinroment but borderline unlivable wages.

    I don't think overreacting and declaring war on labor unions or tearing up regulations is what is called for. Our future won't be competiting with China for low wage jobs. We can't...unless we're willing to really create 2 Americas (even more so than now).

    Did you bother to watch the video I posted earlier?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Did you bother to watch the video I posted earlier?

    j-mac
    I haven't but I will I'll comment when I have.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    In 1981-1982, household net wealth steadily increased year-over-year.



    Between 2007 and 2011, this was not the case (as citizens net wealth was decreasing).



    Which is why citing the misery index is naive.
    Does this include the value of homes?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Does this include the value of homes?
    Yes. The detailed numbers can be found in Table B.100 on the Flow of Funds report. Most recent one: http://www.federalreserve.gov/releas...rent/z1r-5.pdf

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Did you bother to watch the video I posted earlier?

    j-mac
    I watched and I have to say I agree in parts and disagree in parts. I'm pretty sure that compliance and regulation are a large part of his costs. I know that regulation in the financial field is crazy. At the same time capital markets are the linchpin of a capitalists system. You need to have transparency and trust in them.

    I dunno, maybe there are regulations that can be stripped away but at the same time....we may be opening ourselves up to fraud.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I watched and I have to say I agree in parts and disagree in parts. I'm pretty sure that compliance and regulation are a large part of his costs. I know that regulation in the financial field is crazy. At the same time capital markets are the linchpin of a capitalists system. You need to have transparency and trust in them.

    I dunno, maybe there are regulations that can be stripped away but at the same time....we may be opening ourselves up to fraud.
    I agree, and am in no way advocating the elimination of all regulation. But, in the same breath, the regulation have to be designed to aid Americans, and not hamper business with uncertainty...

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I agree, and am in no way advocating the elimination of all regulation. But, in the same breath, the regulation have to be designed to aid Americans, and not hamper business with uncertainty...

    j-mac
    That is very true. There always should be some cost vs benefit considered for any regulation. Government seems to tend to layer regulation. Someone makes a mistake...and they create some new beuracracy or some new regulation that is really just waste. I have no problem of going through with a hatchet and cutting out regulations on the books that were created from one time instances like someone didn't do their job so they created another regulation.

    My main issue is the demonization of regulation. . I think any Liberal person (great article by David Brooks in NYT (Where Are the Liberals? - NYTimes.com) where he mentions that Liberals should be the first to go through slashing regulations and making government better. If you think government can do good...you have to give people a reason to have faith.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    That is very true. There always should be some cost vs benefit considered for any regulation. Government seems to tend to layer regulation. Someone makes a mistake...and they create some new beuracracy or some new regulation that is really just waste. I have no problem of going through with a hatchet and cutting out regulations on the books that were created from one time instances like someone didn't do their job so they created another regulation.

    My main issue is the demonization of regulation. . I think any Liberal person (great article by David Brooks in NYT (Where Are the Liberals? - NYTimes.com) where he mentions that Liberals should be the first to go through slashing regulations and making government better. If you think government can do good...you have to give people a reason to have faith.

    Not a fan of Brooks, but he has a point. Why is it that you think that instead of doing what Obama said he was going to do in the form of going through things line by line, he has only made them more onerous, more restrictive, and created new agencies that are redundant in their mission, that lends the very uncertainty that business claims is one of the problems they face in making the decision to hire?

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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