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Thread: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    We fundamentally agree. I am very Conservative. I do not want to pollute the skies and work kids to death, despite what witch Pelosi and that poodle Wasserman-Shultz say.
    But the fact is that conservatives consistently fight to roll back environmental regulations.

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    But the fact is that conservatives consistently fight to roll back environmental regulations.
    All environmental regulations, or just the ones we see as foolish or counter-productive ?

    Conversely, the "fact" would then be that liberals always fight to increase environmental regulations ? To increase the powers of such as the NLRB ? To increase the power of such as municipal unions ? To increase our comparative disadvantage ?

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    But the fact is that conservatives consistently fight to roll back environmental regulations.
    Sometimes the regulations are idiotic.

    North Hanover deputy mayor pleads guilty in bog turtle case - phillyBurbs.com : Burlington County Times: james durr, north hanover, environment, turtle creek farm, bog turtles

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillyburbs.com
    “The government agrees with us that the sentence should be probationary,” Bennett said. “The boilerplate is that he chopped down some trees in the upland. It’s a low-level misdemeanor, and it’s our expectation that his right to hold office will not be affected.”
    The turtle has more rights that people do - for example, since the turtle is "endangered" that land cannot be taken over by the government using Eminent Domain without working around the turtles habitat. My rights and your rights however, are not so strong as the turtles.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I'm not arguing against head to head production or product quality. I'm arguing the fact that Chinese workers have a living standard where you can pay them 250 bucks a month and work them long hours. I find it hard to believe that in any way besides basically our standard of living completely dissapearing or the Chinese workers standard of living increasing can we compete with Chinese labor.

    Labor pay is only one aspect of a business the size of what we are talking about here. Taxation, regulation, and Unionization are far bigger concerns.

    j-mac
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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain, and Ireland are not competing. Many other European countries have higher unemployment than do we.
    Greece, Italy, Portugal, Ireland and Spain have never been US competitors. They've always been some of the weaker European competing countries. Germany, UK, France, Sweden, Finland, etc are competitive countries and are easily compartive to us in Regulation or labor laws.

    I would like to point out....Ireland was pointed out to show how loose banking and regulatory as well as low tax structures work. People seem to forget during the economic boom Ireland was what Conservatives used to say "see...deregulation and low taxes work". Someone they've turned into examples of big government and high regulation when that's not the case.

    You cannot point to Europe and specific countries and discount the stronger economies.

    But my point apparently served as a perfect response to illustrate to the negative impact of unions on comparative advantage. As you acknowledge.
    Yes, comparative within the US. If Toyata is building an American plant it's because it wants American expertise, take advantage of American higher education, our infrastructure and most importantly wants to build a plant in one of it's largest exporting market.

    They didn't make the choice based on labor laws. They did choose Alabama over Ohio but if all states had the same labor laws they would base it on something else. That's the issue. Companies are not making decisions to build in Texas or South Carolina over India or China. They are choosing those states over Washington or Ohio.

    The faulty logic is that if everybody had the regulatory and labor envinronment of Texas we'd have this massive boom of jobs. At it would mean is that for the manufactoring we do have they would base their decisions on other things besides those two and the consumer and employee would be worse off.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Labor pay is only one aspect of a business the size of what we are talking about here. Taxation, regulation, and Unionization are far bigger concerns.

    j-mac
    Labor costs are generally the most expensive cost in almost any organization.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Greece, Italy, Portugal, Ireland and Spain have never been US competitors. They've always been some of the weaker European competing countries. Germany, UK, France, Sweden, Finland, etc are competitive countries and are easily compartive to us in Regulation or labor laws.

    I would like to point out....Ireland was pointed out to show how loose banking and regulatory as well as low tax structures work. People seem to forget during the economic boom Ireland was what Conservatives used to say "see...deregulation and low taxes work". Someone they've turned into examples of big government and high regulation when that's not the case.

    You cannot point to Europe and specific countries and discount the stronger economies.
    Yet all of the above is "because I say so". Further, the comparison, and complaint, is not just about regulations. Name one of the European countries that YOU named that has a higher corporate tax than the US ? Just one ?

    A: NONE.

    Yes, comparative within the US. If Toyata is building an American plant it's because it wants American expertise, take advantage of American higher education, our infrastructure and most importantly wants to build a plant in one of it's largest exporting market.

    They didn't make the choice based on labor laws. They did choose Alabama over Ohio but if all states had the same labor laws they would base it on something else. That's the issue. Companies are not making decisions to build in Texas or South Carolina over India or China. They are choosing those states over Washington or Ohio.

    The faulty logic is that if everybody had the regulatory and labor envinronment of Texas we'd have this massive boom of jobs. At it would mean is that for the manufactoring we do have they would base their decisions on other things besides those two and the consumer and employee would be worse off.
    But you were the one trying to mitigate the impact of unions as a comparative disadvantage. You have now come around to agreeing that Unions are a measurable factor. We see it in choices made by such as Toyota-US.

    Look, Maytag isn't moving from Iowa to Alabama. GE didn't move half its production in the last 20 years from Illinois to South Carolina. It is most certainly not an issue contained within our borders.

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Labor costs are generally the most expensive cost in almost any organization.

    Peter Schiff says regulation is the biggest burden, not labor cost.

    http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/12055...st-fixed-cost/

    j-mac
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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Yet all of the above is "because I say so". Further, the comparison, and complaint, is not just about regulations. Name one of the European countries that YOU named that has a higher corporate tax than the US ? Just one ?

    A: NONE.
    As for the statutory rate, yeah, we're higher, when including total taxation and what companies really pay in taxes....we're pretty low.

    As for "because I say so"....not it's not. You pick the weakest European countries and say "see....look what labor unions and regulation does". You ignore countries with higher per capita income or higher per capita GDP's.


    But you were the one trying to mitigate the impact of unions as a comparative disadvantage. You have now come around to agreeing that Unions are a measurable factor. We see it in choices made by such as Toyota-US.

    Look, Maytag isn't moving from Iowa to Alabama. GE didn't move half its production in the last 20 years from Illinois to South Carolina. It is most certainly not an issue contained within our borders.
    No...I said Labor Unions were not going to make us competitive with China not that it's not a factor in business decisions. The problem is people like Rick Perry or conservatives that are anti-Union are trying to sell this idea that Labor Unions are the reason factories are going to China....that's not the case. Breaking Labor Unions will not create this massive economic boom.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    No...I said Labor Unions were not going to make us competitive with China not that it's not a factor in business decisions. The problem is people like Rick Perry or conservatives that are anti-Union are trying to sell this idea that Labor Unions are the reason factories are going to China....that's not the case. Breaking Labor Unions will not create this massive economic boom.
    I can agree with this, in so far as Labor Union deterrent by itself is not a sole reason for a business to decline a specific state for consideration, however, when you consider, taxation in the form of repatriation of profit from off shore to an on shore establishment, burdensome regulation coming from every, and any direction make it so though.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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