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Thread: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Inflation is the result of income growth outpacing productivity growth to which there is very little in the near term. However, households are undeniably feeling the pinch as indicated by the balance sheets of all households and non profit organizations .....
    Not that complicated anymore. Just print a lot of money. Run huge deficits, and then make your own Federal Reserve the number one buyer of Treasuries. "Quantitative Easing" will get you inflation just fine. Hitched to reduced demand at the same time, cause incomes are falling, or folks losing jobs. Stagflation.

    The only thing saving us is that Europe sucks worse right now.

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Are you aware of what is happening in Greece ? Italy ? Ireland ? To their standards of living ? What does "austerity measures" mean to you ?
    To begin with, the U.S. possess none of the fundamental characteristics that have plagued Italy, Ireland, or Greece, e.g. dependence on international trade (specifically demand for their exports) as a means to finance public expenditures. Furthermore, the single greatest threat to continual increases of U.S. exports is economic contraction from our largest importers.



    Comparative advantage was a neat thing for a long time. But now, an American can invent something, or take some brilliant idea, and if you blink its being made in China or Indonesia, etc., before we have one off the assembly line. What used to be a head start of a decade in now worth about 10 minutes.
    Given the difficulties you are having understanding the cause behind a trade deficit, it makes little sense to cite product life-cycles without presenting credible evidence of shrinking growth and development phases in the first place. Do you have anything to substantiate your position? If not, there really is no point in responding.

    Free and open trade now guarantees that our standard of living will be pulled down to that of the folks whose products we buy. You can see it ebb in the size of our trade deficits.
    Nope! Open trade guarantees that we have the greatest selection and best prices for all goods produced in the world. Free trade is not a zero sum game!
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Not that complicated anymore.....
    And you have to ask why i call your posts on this topic incoherent?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    And you have to ask why i call your posts on this topic incoherent?
    Yeah. The only time we reduce our trade deficit is to put ourselves into a bigger recession than our trade partners. When your trade imbalance grows to the negative, you are losing your comparative advantage. We were in the $700 B per year range just prior to the Recession.

    With a trade imbalance of that magnitude, our standard of living is going to go down. Further, we are on similar roads as Greece, Ireland, and Italy, in that our debt will mandate austerity measures. Yank a trillion off of our government credit card limit, and folks will have to make due with less.

    So obvious I thought a blind man could see it. Apparently not

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Wonderful job our Republican majority House has been doing eh?
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    The only time we reduce our trade deficit is to put ourselves into a bigger recession than our trade partners.
    What on earth are you rambling about? A reduction in the current account deficit was a result in a slowdown in international demand for U.S. products combined with an increase in personal saving.

    When your trade imbalance grows to the negative, you are losing your comparative advantage. We were in the $700 B per year range just prior to the Recession.
    Again, incoherent nonsense. U.S. comparative advantage is driven primarily by innovation and gains in knowledge.

    With a trade imbalance of that magnitude, our standard of living is going to go down.
    You are obviously confused; mercantilism died in the 19th century.
    Last edited by Kushinator; 01-08-12 at 10:33 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    What on earth are you rambling about? A reduction in the current account deficit was a result in a slowdown in international demand for U.S. products combined with an increase in personal saving.

    Again, incoherent nonsense. U.S. comparative advantage is driven primarily by innovation and gains in knowledge.

    You are obviously confused; mercantilism died in the 19th century.
    When a Maytag plant in Iowa closes down because of foreign competition, or moves its production to Mexico, show us the comparative advantage benefit to those that lost the jobs. Show us what they are now doing with their advantage and how they are now earning more.

    Likewise with the TV's we no longer make. And the cars. And the tools. Etc. Show us how we have collectively benefitted. Being able to buy something cheaper because it is made in China has an advantage as a consumer, but only for so long as I have income with which to consume.

    Meanwhile, while our trade deficit was going off a cliff, we kept our economy propped up with bubbles. The first was the stock bubble caused by the dot-com boom. Quickly replaced by the housing bubble. But you can only play the shell game of selling property back and forth to each other for so long, and we sure found that out.

    Because we have such a large trade deficit, indicative of a large erosion of our comparative advantage in the last 20 years, and had replaced our lack of competitiveness with an economy supported by too much borrowed money, we aren't pulling out of this mess like we have in the past. Actual unemployment now, if we used the same LFPR as we had when Obama took office, would be 10.9%. That libs are cheering because its reported at 8.5% means that we have 2.4 folks per every hundred that would have been bringing home paychecks when Obama was inaugurated, but are not now, reducing the standard of living in those homes, and we don't even count them anymore in looking to see if we are better or worse.

    I am through with this libtard lunacy.
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 01-08-12 at 10:54 PM.

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Wonderful job our Republican majority House has been doing eh?
    Yeah, they call all the shots, don't they ? Stimulus fail. Obamacare fail. $1.5 Trillion deficits. Green energy boondoggle rabbit holes. $30 B negative equity in our GM stock. The list goes on ...........

    ....... oh wait !!!

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    When a Maytag plant in Iowa closes down because of foreign competition, or moves its production to Mexico, show us the comparative advantage benefit to those that lost the jobs. Show us what they are now doing with their advantage and how they are now earning more.
    Unfortunately those who lost their jobs won't see much advantage, but everyone who buys a washing machine or dryer will, in the form of lower prices. Ask the Soviet Union, or Cuba, or North Korea how well closed economies work.

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    Re: U.S. Payrolls Gain More-Than-Expected 200,000; Jobless Rate Falls to 8.5%

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Likewise with the TV's we no longer make. And the cars. And the tools. Etc. Show us how we have collectively benefitted. Being able to buy something cheaper because it is made in China has an advantage as a consumer, but only for so long as I have income with which to consume.
    This is a good point, but it leads to a deeper discussion about our standard of living and our consumptive and acquisitive habits.

    You and I need income to continue living as we do. If we lost our access to income 100 years ago, to what would we likely turn in order to survive? I think the answer is farming. Living really, really simply. As a culture we feel above this. And it's become more difficult anyway, as it's hard to sell local produce in competition with large organic farms, let alone industrial food production which is heavily governmentally subsidized. So in some respect the lifestyle we should be able to rely on (self-sufficiency) has become so undermined by federal food production activities that it might not even be that much of an option anymore.

    So when we lose our income but want to retain our standard of living, to where do we turn nowadays? The federal government, who will literally pay us to keep consuming. If we did today what we would have done 100 years ago, that self-sufficiency would detrimentally impact the bottom lines of many corporations. Dependence on government is profitable to large corporations, and therefore we have a growing government to render us dependent on them and make self-sufficiency non-feasible.

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