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Thread: US military cutbacks

  1. #231
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Of course many hate us, we invade and occupy more countries than any nation on the planet. If you want respect, you have to earn it. You don't do that by being responsible for more civilian deaths than anyone else. What programs did Obama start that have added as much expense as our excessive military spending? The health care reform saves $500 billion over a decade.
    Do I really need to outline spending? Okay, here it goes.
    Commercial Paper Funding Facility: 1.8 trillion
    GSE mortgage-backed securities purchases: 1.25 trillion
    Term Asset-backed securities Loan Facility: 1 trillion
    American Recovery and Reinvestment Act: 787 billion
    Military spending 2010: 687 billion
    Money Market Investor Funding Facility: 600 billion
    Term Auction Facility: 500 billion
    Citigroup: 224 billion
    GSE Debt purchases: 200 billion
    Economic Stimulus Act of 2008: 168 billion
    Bank of America: 97 billion
    Automotive bailouts: 80.1 billion
    AIG: 70 billion
    Solyndra: 527 million
    Tesla: 465 million
    I could keep going but I would just be running the score up on you. I do believe in the mercy rule in some theaters. Heres a link, btw, I only scrolled down half the page. As far as health care. I don't think its constitutional, but, that's not the topic here. The topic is spending. So, what kind of idiot tries healthcare reform in a recession?! That's my point with this guy. He doesn't know what he's doing. He should have left that to run on in his second term. Instead, he has the SCOTUS about to make him look bad in an election year. Perfect example of the fact that he is in over his head.
    Follow the money: Bailout tracker - CNNMoney.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    How do we continue to spend as much as the rest of the world combined and continue to give tax breaks to the rich?
    If you think we need to spend as much as the rest of the world combined on military spending, how do you propose to pay for it??? Because , in case you haven't noticed, The GOP practice of simply adding it to our National debt for the last 30 years has not been working too well!

    We are making the same mistake the USSR made by letting our economy fail to keep up our military spending levels.
    Bin Laden, said he would not defeat us on the battlefield, but in depleting our financial resources fighting endless wars in the middle east.

    Some apparently want to prove him right.
    See examples of how to pay for it above. You can add right? Also, don't bring that tired, Occupy Wall Street, tax the rich crap on here. Maybe if more than 47% of the country paid taxes, we wouldn't have this problem. But that would mean the entitlement half of the population that is sucking on the tit of big government would have to be weened off. That, in turn, would result in the GOP running roughshod over the whole lot of them. Can't have that huh?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  2. #232
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Do I really need to outline spending? Okay, here it goes.
    Commercial Paper Funding Facility: 1.8 trillion
    GSE mortgage-backed securities purchases: 1.25 trillion
    Term Asset-backed securities Loan Facility: 1 trillion
    American Recovery and Reinvestment Act: 787 billion
    Military spending 2010: 687 billion
    Money Market Investor Funding Facility: 600 billion
    Term Auction Facility: 500 billion
    Citigroup: 224 billion
    GSE Debt purchases: 200 billion
    Economic Stimulus Act of 2008: 168 billion
    Bank of America: 97 billion
    Automotive bailouts: 80.1 billion
    AIG: 70 billion
    Solyndra: 527 million
    Tesla: 465 million
    I could keep going but I would just be running the score up on you. I do believe in the mercy rule in some theaters. Heres a link, btw, I only scrolled down half the page. As far as health care. I don't think its constitutional, but, that's not the topic here. The topic is spending. So, what kind of idiot tries healthcare reform in a recession?! That's my point with this guy. He doesn't know what he's doing. He should have left that to run on in his second term. Instead, he has the SCOTUS about to make him look bad in an election year. Perfect example of the fact that he is in over his head.
    Follow the money: Bailout tracker - CNNMoney.com
    Your link doesn't back up your figures above. You are opposed to the $500 billion savings to Medicare over a decade? If you do a little study of economics, you will learn that its necessary to spend in a recession and cut spending during boom times. Obama did not inherit boom times.


    See examples of how to pay for it above. You can add right? Also, don't bring that tired, Occupy Wall Street, tax the rich crap on here. Maybe if more than 47% of the country paid taxes, we wouldn't have this problem. But that would mean the entitlement half of the population that is sucking on the tit of big government would have to be weened off. That, in turn, would result in the GOP running roughshod over the whole lot of them. Can't have that huh?
    Obama did not create the Great Recession he was charged with fixing. It is a lie that 47% of the country pays no taxes. That is ignoring payroll taxes which make up over half of federal revenue. SS has not added one dime to our debt. The world's most expensive health care cost is what is driving the problem with Medicare. In order to fix that, we will have to upgrade our health care system as the rest of the industrialized world has done. If you want to continue spending as much as the rest of the world combined, we will have to raise taxes or continue to increase our debt. Which will it be?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #233
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Your link doesn't back up your figures above. You are opposed to the $500 billion savings to Medicare over a decade? If you do a little study of economics, you will learn that its necessary to spend in a recession and cut spending during boom times. Obama did not inherit boom times.
    How does it not back the figures? I cut and pasted it! Who's economics are you studying? Wow, this quote will go at the bottom of my posts from now on. Let me get this straight, just so I'm not overreacting. Spend when you don't have money, save when you do? Is that correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Obama did not create the Great Recession he was charged with fixing. It is a lie that 47% of the country pays no taxes. That is ignoring payroll taxes which make up over half of federal revenue. SS has not added one dime to our debt. The world's most expensive health care cost is what is driving the problem with Medicare. In order to fix that, we will have to upgrade our health care system as the rest of the industrialized world has done. If you want to continue spending as much as the rest of the world combined, we will have to raise taxes or continue to increase our debt. Which will it be?
    Its been 3 years, Reagan fixed his in 2. Payroll tax goes directly to Social Security. Healthcare should be privatized. Oh, and "rest of the industrialized world" you're speaking of is worse off than we are, minus China. What else you got? Look bro. If you're not going to come with anything better than what you have so far, I'm gonna move on to another thread. This is getting old.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  4. #234
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    How does it not back the figures? I cut and pasted it! Who's economics are you studying? Wow, this quote will go at the bottom of my posts from now on. Let me get this straight, just so I'm not overreacting. Spend when you don't have money, save when you do? Is that correct?
    No, you don't have it correct. The great majority of all economists agree that you cut spending in boom times so as not to make the recession worse. Quote that if you like.

    You cut and pasted them from where? I could not find all your figures in the link you provided.



    Its been 3 years, Reagan fixed his in 2.
    Reagan fixed his what?


    Payroll tax goes directly to Social Security.
    No it doesn't. SS receipts go right in the the general fund, and we have used those funds to pay for our excessive military spending over the last decade so the rich could get tax cuts, providing IOUs to the SS Trust Fund for the money borrowed.


    Healthcare should be privatized. Oh, and "rest of the industrialized world" you're speaking of is worse off than we are, minus China. What else you got? Look bro. If you're not going to come with anything better than what you have so far, I'm gonna move on to another thread. This is getting old.
    Privatizing doesn't fix the problem of the most expensive health care system in the world.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #235
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No, you don't have it correct. The great majority of all economists agree that you cut spending in boom times so as not to make the recession worse. Quote that if you like.
    Show me some proof. I'm tired of hearing your thoughts. They prove nothing. I want to see a recession recovered by spending. Don't give FDR's New Deal either because WWII saved his butt. Economics are a subjective thing. However, the proof that cutting spending while still increasing military spending, and still pulling out of a recession is provided during Reagans two terms. Where's the proof that Obama's methods work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You cut and pasted them from where? I could not find all your figures in the link you provided.
    My mistake. There are two figures I posted that are not on the CNN link. Solyndra and Tesla. Other than that, they're all on there. I just opened the link again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Reagan fixed his what?
    His recession. You know, the one he inherited from Obamas mentor Jimmy Carter. But you don't hear me claiming that everywhere and neither did Reagan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No it doesn't. SS receipts go right in the the general fund, and we have used those funds to pay for our excessive military spending over the last decade so the rich could get tax cuts, providing IOUs to the SS Trust Fund for the money borrowed.
    Quoted from Wikipedia: In the United States, the Social Security Trust Fund is a fund operated by the Social Security Administration into which are paid payroll tax contributions from workers and employers under the Social Security system and out of which benefit payments to retirees, survivors, and the disabled, and general administrative expenses are paid.
    Show proof of your claims about the excessive military spending and rich tax cuts are what bankrupted Social Security.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Privatizing doesn't fix the problem of the most expensive health care system in the world.
    Okay, I'm done talking to you after this. You need to read a book or something, seriously. It does drive costs down because it becomes competitive. Kinda like your car insurance. Providers will continually try to be lower than their competitors. If the patient can choose the doc, the doc has to be polite and actually act like he cares about the patient instead of the crap we get now. He actually has to treat the patient instead of throwing medications at him and sending him home. Then, when the government comes in with Medicaid and Medicare, the prices are lower due to the market being driven by the consumer.
    Last edited by MarineTpartier; 01-12-12 at 07:59 PM.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  6. #236
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    neocon ass kissers: corp. republicon media of the 1%,

    800 billion a year to kill 200 militants in afghanistan with drones?

    Come on ten years in Iraq to get one guy Saddam?

    "divide and conquer thats the game,Beneath their haircut and clothes we're really all the same.They threaten our lives with nuclear war. Gonna cruficy usjust once more"

    "The television cannot lie. Controlling media with smokescreen eyes. Nuclear politicians picture show. The acting's lousy but the blind don't know. They scare us all with threats of war. So we forget just how bad things are. You taste the fear when you're all alone. "

    - Stiv Bators

  7. #237
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post
    neocon ass kissers: corp. republicon media of the 1%,

    800 billion a year to kill 200 militants in afghanistan with drones?

    Come on ten years in Iraq to get one guy Saddam?

    "divide and conquer thats the game,Beneath their haircut and clothes we're really all the same.They threaten our lives with nuclear war. Gonna cruficy usjust once more"

    "The television cannot lie. Controlling media with smokescreen eyes. Nuclear politicians picture show. The acting's lousy but the blind don't know. They scare us all with threats of war. So we forget just how bad things are. You taste the fear when you're all alone. "

    - Stiv Bators
    Wow, left field. I love the way you enter an honest debate with punk rock poems. Awesome.
    Where did you get your data about 200 militants?
    We spent 687 billion, not 800
    We were in Iraq 8 years, not ten.
    We got Saddam in '03 and stayed until '11. I think our mission was more than getting Saddam.
    Thanks for posting, have a good day. Good bye.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  8. #238
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Show me some proof. I'm tired of hearing your thoughts. They prove nothing. I want to see a recession recovered by spending. Don't give FDR's New Deal either because WWII saved his butt. Economics are a subjective thing. However, the proof that cutting spending while still increasing military spending, and still pulling out of a recession is provided during Reagans two terms. Where's the proof that Obama's methods work?
    Spending for WWII was stimulus for our economy.

    "In seven short years, under massive Keynesian spending, the U.S. went from the greatest depression it has ever known to the greatest economic boom it has ever known. The success of Keynesian economics was so resounding that almost all capitalist governments around the world adopted its policies. And the result seems to be nothing less than the extinction of the economic depression! Before World War II, eight U.S. recessions worsened into depressions (as happened in 1807, 1837, 1873, 1882, 1893, 1920, 1933, and 1937). Since World War II, under Keynesian policies, there have been nine recessions (1945-46, 1949, 1954, 1956, 1960-61, 1970, 1973-75, 1980-83, 1990-92 ), and not one has turned into a depression. The success of Keynesian economics was such that even Richard Nixon once declared, "We are all Keynesians now."

    After the war, economists found Keynesianism a useful tool in controlling unemployment and inflation. And this set up a theoretical war between liberals and conservatives that continues to this day, although it appears that Keynesianism has survived the conservatives' attacks and has emerged the predominant theory among economists."


    His recession. You know, the one he inherited from Obamas mentor Jimmy Carter. But you don't hear me claiming that everywhere and neither did Reagan.
    The recession was mostly over when Reagan came into office. Unemployment was already down to 6.9%. And Reagan didn't inherit wars in two different countries.


    Quoted from Wikipedia: In the United States, the Social Security Trust Fund is a fund operated by the Social Security Administration into which are paid payroll tax contributions from workers and employers under the Social Security system and out of which benefit payments to retirees, survivors, and the disabled, and general administrative expenses are paid.
    Show proof of your claims about the excessive military spending and rich tax cuts are what bankrupted Social Security.
    How Your Social Security Money Was Stolen – Where Did the $2.5 Trillion Surplus Go?


    Okay, I'm done talking to you after this. You need to read a book or something, seriously. It does drive costs down because it becomes competitive. Kinda like your car insurance. Providers will continually try to be lower than their competitors. If the patient can choose the doc, the doc has to be polite and actually act like he cares about the patient instead of the crap we get now. He actually has to treat the patient instead of throwing medications at him and sending him home. Then, when the government comes in with Medicaid and Medicare, the prices are lower due to the market being driven by the consumer.
    Private insurance is more expensive than through Medicare as their overhead is lower and there is zero profit.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #239
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Spending for WWII was stimulus for our economy.

    "In seven short years, under massive Keynesian spending, the U.S. went from the greatest depression it has ever known to the greatest economic boom it has ever known. The success of Keynesian economics was so resounding that almost all capitalist governments around the world adopted its policies. And the result seems to be nothing less than the extinction of the economic depression! Before World War II, eight U.S. recessions worsened into depressions (as happened in 1807, 1837, 1873, 1882, 1893, 1920, 1933, and 1937). Since World War II, under Keynesian policies, there have been nine recessions (1945-46, 1949, 1954, 1956, 1960-61, 1970, 1973-75, 1980-83, 1990-92 ), and not one has turned into a depression. The success of Keynesian economics was such that even Richard Nixon once declared, "We are all Keynesians now."

    After the war, economists found Keynesianism a useful tool in controlling unemployment and inflation. And this set up a theoretical war between liberals and conservatives that continues to this day, although it appears that Keynesianism has survived the conservatives' attacks and has emerged the predominant theory among economists.".
    Give me your source, not some dribble. How do I know you didn't just type that? In addition, they say all capitalist governments adopted its policies. Look where that got us!!! You do understand we are in a recession now and we aren't coming out of it nearly as fast as we should right? You do get that? Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The recession was mostly over when Reagan came into office. Unemployment was already down to 6.9%. And Reagan didn't inherit wars in two different countries..
    The early 1980s recession was a severe recession in the United States which began in July 1981 and ended in November 1982 (Wikipedia). No, he didn't inherit two wars, just one huge one getting ready to kick off, the Cold War.

    You post a black balled authors story? Come on. I find it hard to believe the guy was the subject of some massive conspiracy. If this was the case, 9/11 conspiracy theorists would get their books pulled, etc. Interesting article though. If the source were better, I'd say you have a point honestly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Private insurance is more expensive than through Medicare as their overhead is lower and there is zero profit.
    So what you're saying is the government is more effecive at running a business than an actual business that cares about making money? You contradict the point you tried to make about Social Security. That's the whole point. Gov't can't and shouldn't run any business. Medicare and Medicaid should benefit from the private market, not dicatate it.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  10. #240
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Give me your source
    Sorry, forgot the link: A Review of Keynesian Theory

    In addition, they say all capitalist governments adopted its policies.
    We replaced Keynesian economics in 1981. For the last 30 years we have operated under supply sided economics and deregulation that was coined as Reaganomics.

    Look where that got us!!!
    Exactly!



    OK back to topic, how do you propose to pay for continuing excessive military spending despite our ending two wars?

    Through taxes, debt or cutting benefits to seniors?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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