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Thread: US military cutbacks

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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Your discussion with me has been nothing about Iran.
    Exactly:

    "Our discussion has been about the risk of Iran acting more aggressive than other countries with nuclear weapons were we not? Well I am showing you that Iran has behaved less aggressively to other countries than have we in the last half century. They waged less wars than we have and they have killed less people then we have."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    Liberals have short memories, they don't remember the Gulf of Tonkin.
    I must have missed the part where the US had a million casualties in the Gulf of Tonkin?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its not the lib argument it is the facts. The GOP wants wasteful spending but doesn't want to give up the tax cuts for the rich. Its been the same damn way for the last 30 years. The only time we make a significant dent in our deficit spending is when both sides came together in the 90's to eliminate some of the tax breaks for the wealthy and decreased military spending.

    Obama has suggested cutting wasteful military spending. All the military brass I've heard agree, this is the direction we need to go. The question you have to ask yourself is do you want more debt, or increased taxes to pay for as much military spending as the rest of the world combined, or do you think some cuts are merited now that we have ended one war and are winding down another???
    The 90's? Yeah, in the 90's I was wearing Vietnam era body armor, with no bulletproof plates, and holding the body armor closed with bungee cord. I only shot my M-16 once a year, for 3 days. We could only go train in field craft once every 3 months. That's what we should go to? I think not.
    I have said NUMEROUS times that I am fine with some cuts. The thing is, Obama's not cutting anything else. He double dips on the military but doesn't touch other major programs. No one's mentioning the automatic cuts that come into play due to the super committee failure.
    Did you not look at the graphs I provided? Bush had less DOD spending than Obama. Did you ignore that little fact? I even picked 2007 as the Bush year because it was the peak of the surge in Iraq and he still had the House and Senate. So, during the peak time of the most expensive war he had and while he had the House and the Senate, he still spent less on the military and in general than Obama did in 2010. I'll answer my question to you from my last post? Where is all that extra spending? Look at welfare. Oh, and Obama cut education. The GOP are the ones saber rattling though right? The guys who spend more on education and less on military? Riiiiight
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    Liberals have short memories, they don't remember the Gulf of Tonkin.
    You should check out what Jessie (the body) Ventura has to say about the Gulf of Tonkin.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    Liberals have short memories, they don't remember the Gulf of Tonkin.
    Most Libbos think we invaded South Vietnam, too. So...
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    The 90's? Yeah, in the 90's I was wearing Vietnam era body armor, with no bulletproof plates, and holding the body armor closed with bungee cord. I only shot my M-16 once a year, for 3 days. We could only go train in field craft once every 3 months. That's what we should go to? I think not.

    I have said NUMEROUS times that I am fine with some cuts. The thing is, Obama's not cutting anything else. He double dips on the military but doesn't touch other major programs. No one's mentioning the automatic cuts that come into play due to the super committee failure.
    Did you not look at the graphs I provided? Bush had less DOD spending than Obama. Did you ignore that little fact? I even picked 2007 as the Bush year because it was the peak of the surge in Iraq and he still had the House and Senate. So, during the peak time of the most expensive war he had and while he had the House and the Senate, he still spent less on the military and in general than Obama did in 2010. I'll answer my question to you from my last post? Where is all that extra spending? Look at welfare. Oh, and Obama cut education. The GOP are the ones saber rattling though right? The guys who spend more on education and less on military? Riiiiight
    There were no trillion dollar wars adding to our debt nor thousands of our service people being killed, and we didn't have tens of thousands of maimed Veterans either. I think I can handle you being bored as an alternative.

    Glad to hear you support the cuts Obama proposed to the military, maybe you can convince the GOP candidates before the election, who think we need to increase military spending.

    The extra spending on welfare is due to 30 years of Reaganomics. With the majority of the wealth concentrated at the top now, there are more poor people/less middle class. You want to reduce welfare? Pay people a living wage for full time work. Reaganomics has half the country with an average income of $15,800.

    You keep going back and forth on military spending. You say you think we should cut military spending but you are pissed it is Obama doing it and not the GOP???
    Last edited by Catawba; 01-11-12 at 03:05 AM.
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    There were no trillion dollar wars adding to our debt nor thousands of our service people being killed, and we didn't have tens of thousands of maimed Veterans either. I think I can handle you being bored as an alternative.

    Glad to hear you support the cuts Obama proposed to the military, maybe you can convince the GOP candidates before the election, who think we need to increase military spending.

    The extra spending on welfare is due to 30 years of Reaganomics. With the majority of the wealth concentrated at the top now, there are more poor people/less middle class. You want to reduce welfare? Pay people a living wage for full time work. Reaganomics has half the country with an average income of $15,800.

    You keep going back and forth on military spending. You say you think we should cut military spending but you are pissed it is Obama doing it and not the GOP???
    No, not bored. There's a difference between bored and under trained. I don't know what your profession is, but, the military is a strange job to train for. I can't practice killing people everyday. We have to arrange training to do that, and you still can't train to the actual job. I don't think anyone would like us doing Starship Troopers type training (I wouldn't either). During the Bush years, we trained a week out of every month. That was enough to keep skills sharp. Training doesn't mean we necessarily go shoot a range everytime either. There are a lot of training goals you can accomplish without spending a lot of money, and trust me, we get creative if we are trying to save money for a big training op. Each unit is allotted a certain amount of money to train each fiscal year. This fiscal year, which started in October, we are already to the point where we can't do anything until May. When I say anything, I mean we can't even afford the fuel to drive to a training area. We have trained for a total of 8 days this year. Would you want to go to another country, where you might lose your life, with 8 days of training? I think not.
    I have said numerous times, I am okay with SOME military cuts. Not to the extent Obama is doing it. Like I said, he has already double dipped on us and no one's talking about the failure of the "super committee" to reach a deal. What happens when that automatic cut goes into effect?
    Now you're blaming Reagan? Last time I checked, Bill Clinton headed welfare reform in the 90's. So, we are living with Clinton welfare plans right now, not Reagan. Keep trying to blame every conservative you can bro. I will agree, Bush did nothing to help our economy. You can look through every post I have put up on this website and this thread is the first time I have defended Bush. And I only defended him on this thread because you made a false claim that he spent more than Obama on the military, which is factually inaccurate. Now, 2012 will be a different story. Yes, Obama will spend much less that Bush ever did. Of course, it's an election year too...........
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    No, not bored. There's a difference between bored and under trained. I don't know what your profession is, but, the military is a strange job to train for. I can't practice killing people everyday. We have to arrange training to do that, and you still can't train to the actual job. I don't think anyone would like us doing Starship Troopers type training (I wouldn't either). During the Bush years, we trained a week out of every month. That was enough to keep skills sharp. Training doesn't mean we necessarily go shoot a range everytime either. There are a lot of training goals you can accomplish without spending a lot of money, and trust me, we get creative if we are trying to save money for a big training op. Each unit is allotted a certain amount of money to train each fiscal year. This fiscal year, which started in October, we are already to the point where we can't do anything until May. When I say anything, I mean we can't even afford the fuel to drive to a training area. We have trained for a total of 8 days this year. Would you want to go to another country, where you might lose your life, with 8 days of training? I think not.
    I have said numerous times, I am okay with SOME military cuts. Not to the extent Obama is doing it. Like I said, he has already double dipped on us and no one's talking about the failure of the "super committee" to reach a deal. What happens when that automatic cut goes into effect?
    Unless the GOP figures out a way to weasel out of it, hopefully we will finally get some spending cuts. And you have come no where close to convincing me we need to spend as much as the rest of the world combined to provide training for defense. We managed for almost 200 years without spending as much as the rest of the world combined.


    Now you're blaming Reagan? Last time I checked, Bill Clinton headed welfare reform in the 90's. So, we are living with Clinton welfare plans right now, not Reagan. Keep trying to blame every conservative you can bro. I will agree, Bush did nothing to help our economy. You can look through every post I have put up on this website and this thread is the first time I have defended Bush. And I only defended him on this thread because you made a false claim that he spent more than Obama on the military, which is factually inaccurate. Now, 2012 will be a different story. Yes, Obama will spend much less that Bush ever did. Of course, it's an election year too...........
    Reagan is the father of our borrow and spend problem. As has been documented Reagan started our big debt to GDP problem with his excessive military spending. Clinton working with the GOP to both cut military spending and increase taxes was the only time in the last 30 years we have seriously reduced our deficit spending. I did not make the claim that Obama spent less on military. How could he? Both of the Bush wars were still going when he became president. Now that he has ended the war in Iraq and is winding down the war in Afghanistan, we don't need to be spending so much money on military. You both blame Obama for spending too much on the military and for his planned cuts. Let me know when you land on one or the other position.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Unless the GOP figures out a way to weasel out of it, hopefully we will finally get some spending cuts. And you have come no where close to convincing me we need to spend as much as the rest of the world combined to provide training for defense. We managed for almost 200 years without spending as much as the rest of the world combined.
    Hopefully we do get some spending cuts, on ridiculous programs started by Obama, such as his garbage healthcare reform. I don't need to convince you about defense spending. Whether you want to believe it or not, the fact of the matter is that there are far more countries that hate us and than like us. You can blame that on whatever you like (I'm sure it will be a Republicans fault with you) but it's a fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Reagan is the father of our borrow and spend problem. As has been documented Reagan started our big debt to GDP problem with his excessive military spending. Clinton working with the GOP to both cut military spending and increase taxes was the only time in the last 30 years we have seriously reduced our deficit spending. I did not make the claim that Obama spent less on military. How could he? Both of the Bush wars were still going when he became president. Now that he has ended the war in Iraq and is winding down the war in Afghanistan, we don't need to be spending so much money on military. You both blame Obama for spending too much on the military and for his planned cuts. Let me know when you land on one or the other position.
    I don't see that Reagan had much of a choice, do you? Remember something called The Cold War? He ended that by winning the arms race with Russia. I don't know how old you are, but I remember being in grade school and having to do "tornado" drills all the time. Years later I would find out those were nuclear blast drills. I know one thing, you can't put a price on security. Nothing can be accomplished without security.
    Also on Clinton, his weak "just launch a cruise missile" response to the terrorist attacks during his tenure helped foster the environment we're in today. I've already told you how poorly equipped and trained we were during his tenure. I applaud the guy for his compromises. I think he was a great economic POTUS. However, if anything would have happened during his presidency, we would have been hurting bad. I personally believe that when a president's strategy for controlling spending heavily involves the military, it is bad economics. The military is the only part of the gov't that can be called to action by outside sources. If someone attacks us, the cuts made are negated because now you have to spend and you leave yourself unprepared to counter the threat.
    You did make the claim Bush spent more than Obama though, and that was proved wrong. Like I said, I agree with some cuts. I was merely proving your typical lib claim of Bush spending false.The war in Iraq was very much over by the time Obama took over. It was a formality at that point. He was the one who turned the focus to Afghanistan prematurely before ending Iraq. Bush didn't make that mistake. There was clearly a pecking order as far as the wars went. Iraq came first, Afghanistan second. BTW, Obama supported the war in Afghanistan and was wrong about Iraq. Kinda funny the war he "took ownership of", that being Afghanistan, is going to be a failure. Iraq was a success, by all accounts. We left a country that had held elections, has one of the better militaries in the region, and will become economically sound once they figure a way to tap into their oil reserves, which are substantial. You can make claims about the recent bombings over there all you want. They are still better off than before we got there.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Hopefully we do get some spending cuts, on ridiculous programs started by Obama, such as his garbage healthcare reform. I don't need to convince you about defense spending. Whether you want to believe it or not, the fact of the matter is that there are far more countries that hate us and than like us. You can blame that on whatever you like (I'm sure it will be a Republicans fault with you) but it's a fact.
    Of course many hate us, we invade and occupy more countries than any nation on the planet. If you want respect, you have to earn it. You don't do that by being responsible for more civilian deaths than anyone else. What programs did Obama start that have added as much expense as our excessive military spending? The health care reform saves $500 billion over a decade.

    I don't see that Reagan had much of a choice, do you? Remember something called The Cold War? He ended that by winning the arms race with Russia. I don't know how old you are, but I remember being in grade school and having to do "tornado" drills all the time. Years later I would find out those were nuclear blast drills. I know one thing, you can't put a price on security. Nothing can be accomplished without security.
    Also on Clinton, his weak "just launch a cruise missile" response to the terrorist attacks during his tenure helped foster the environment we're in today. I've already told you how poorly equipped and trained we were during his tenure. I applaud the guy for his compromises. I think he was a great economic POTUS. However, if anything would have happened during his presidency, we would have been hurting bad. I personally believe that when a president's strategy for controlling spending heavily involves the military, it is bad economics. The military is the only part of the gov't that can be called to action by outside sources. If someone attacks us, the cuts made are negated because now you have to spend and you leave yourself unprepared to counter the threat.
    You did make the claim Bush spent more than Obama though, and that was proved wrong. Like I said, I agree with some cuts. I was merely proving your typical lib claim of Bush spending false.The war in Iraq was very much over by the time Obama took over. It was a formality at that point. He was the one who turned the focus to Afghanistan prematurely before ending Iraq. Bush didn't make that mistake. There was clearly a pecking order as far as the wars went. Iraq came first, Afghanistan second. BTW, Obama supported the war in Afghanistan and was wrong about Iraq. Kinda funny the war he "took ownership of", that being Afghanistan, is going to be a failure. Iraq was a success, by all accounts. We left a country that had held elections, has one of the better militaries in the region, and will become economically sound once they figure a way to tap into their oil reserves, which are substantial. You can make claims about the recent bombings over there all you want. They are still better off than before we got there.
    How do we continue to spend as much as the rest of the world combined and continue to give tax breaks to the rich?

    If you think we need to spend as much as the rest of the world combined on military spending, how do you propose to pay for it??? Because , in case you haven't noticed, The GOP practice of simply adding it to our National debt for the last 30 years has not been working too well!

    We are making the same mistake the USSR made by letting our economy fail to keep up our military spending levels.
    Bin Laden, said he would not defeat us on the battlefield, but in depleting our financial resources fighting endless wars in the middle east.

    Some apparently want to prove him right.
    Last edited by Catawba; 01-12-12 at 12:57 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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