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Thread: US military cutbacks

  1. #201
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That's not even a fraction of people killed by the US, or even by Israel, the proxy army for the US.
    That's irrelevant. You said that Iran never attacked anyone. I simply proved you wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    GREAT POINT! Wish I woulda thought of it lol. I didn't even know the 6 month rule though. I'm still active so I don't know every benefit I should though. Wish I could give you two likes for this one.
    I am too - EAS is two long years away. But my boss (who just finished SEPS/TAPS himself) is about as motivated as I am. I am keeping a sharp eye on those voluntary separation payments, should they become available.

  3. #203
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Iran invaded American soil in 1979 and in violation of the Geneva Convention, took 53 Americans hostage and held them for 444 days.

    In 1983, the Iranian funded proxy army, Hezbollah, bombed the Marine Barracks in Beirut, killing 241 Americans.

    In 1996, the Iranian funded proxy army, Hezbollah, bombed the Khobar Towers, killing 19 Americans
    ...and for the last 8 years Quds Forces (part of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps) have been killing Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan.

  4. #204
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    All I'm saying is a lot of you rally against other government support programs, yet are more than willing to engage in the ones you can take. "virtually pays for itself"? Only because you can take money from people who will never use the service. If you pay into the GI Bill and don't go to college, shouldn't you get the money you put into it back? It's your money? But no, instead of being "treated like everyone else", you have a sense of entitlement due to what you have done and feel that it is owed to you. You want to be treated like everyone else, yes? That's what you said. Pay for your own college instead of taking the money of your fellow servicemen in order to fund your personal education.
    A lot of us, not me. This is my opinion. I have heard quite a few vets say the things I'm saying, but, not all of them. I never claimed I was on here representing the entire vet community. The question is, when you turn 65, will you turn down your social security? If you will, you have an agrument here. If not, I suggest you move along with a different point because you are a hypocrite. Unless, of course, you believe that everyone in this country lives until 65, then decides to die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Terrorist attacks can never bring down America in and of themselves. They are a probability that given enough time will work themselves out. Even 9/11 which is arguably one of the most successful terrorist attacks on the 50 State's soil proper didn't claim as many as cars do in a year. A true threat is another State engaging in war against us. And that we have not seen since WW II. I'm not trying to "make you responsible" for the legislation either; merely showing that the overall aggressive actions and misuse of the military by the government has not made me any free-er. If anything, it's consumed liberty. But keep pretending that you're doing something real for American sovereignty and freedom while robbing others of their money to go to school and then condemning others on the government dime.

    Want to be treated like everyone else....my ass.
    Really? They can't bring us down? I would argue 9/11 has as much to do with our economic collapse as actual economic policies. That's the point of terrorism. It is the perfect strategy against a biggest, stronger opponent. Its death by a thousand knives. The days of another state engaging us in war are over, I agree. Why? Because unlike the time period between 1776-1915, we have actually decided to pull our heads out of our butt and realize there is a world beyond our borders. Acting as though the rest of the world is on its own and we can just sit back and watch the show is absurd. The economic collapse that would have happened had Germany won WWI or WWII would have devastated us just as much as it they blitzkrieg'd our borders. It would have turned into Germany, Russia, and Japan fighting for every piece of land in the world except North America, hopefully. Who's going to buy our exports then? This fallacy that we can pull everyone in a let the world collapse around us is absurd. By your logic, we should have never engaged in either World War.
    As far as what I'm doing for our country. I have no confidence issues regarding that. You are entitled to your opinion and that's the reason I do it. And, regarding your "robbing others of their money to go to school" argument. If you plan to return your social security at 65 and refuse medicaid, you have solid footing for an argument. I would bet you plan to do neither. So, as I said above, move along to the second portion of your argument about us not needing a military as big as we have because your first portion is an exercise in hypocrisy.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  5. #205
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Military threats to the US are not proportional to our GDP. What is important is the amount we spend on the military relative to other countries. And we spend almost as much as the rest of the world COMBINED. We have lots of room for cuts in military spending and still spend twice as much as the next biggest spender, China. I'm glad you agree we need to cut military spending. Diplomatic embassies make more sense to me than having so many unnecessary military bases around the planet. The US can no longer afford to be the world's police.
    Sorry, but I baited you into the embassy argument. How infuriated do you get when you see our embassies attacked? I'm sure, if you're any kind of patriot, it does infuriate you. Me too. That's where the military comes in. We NEED things like Marine Expeditionary Units (MEUs) that can handle these things. The 82nd and 101st Airborne are also participants in quick reaction type missions. If you need a better explanation about MEUs, here's a link Marine expeditionary unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
    It is a very expensive, very complex unit that is one of the cornerstones for our global security. They use every weapon in the arsenal. However, with recent cuts, the centerpiece of the MEU (an amphibious, tracked vehicle) has been totally ruled out. Like I said earlier, the Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle (EFV) should have been cut. It had become too pricey and the company attempting to build it displayed that they didn't know what they were doing. However, the need is still there. The current version we have leaks, has no armor, is painfully slow in the water, and is extremely old. Imagine floating along, going to secure an embassy (with rounds incoming), and you're going 8 mph (on calm waters) with no armor around you and the only weapons you have are two machine guns that are easily outranged by any coastal type gun. This is all to make sure an embassy is secure, not to go invade some country or "fight for oil" like everyone likes to say about Iraq with no proof. If we want to be diplomatic, and we want to send these emissaries to all of these foreign countries, we owe it to them to provide security if they need it. This is not a far fetched idea. It happens more than people think it does. Just google embassy evacuated by Marines and see how many pages pop up. This is just a sample of why we need a military as big as it is.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That's not even a fraction of people killed by the US, or even by Israel, the proxy army for the US.
    Show proof. Don't just come up with strawman arguments. This is a common argument used by the left but they never show the other sides atrocities.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  7. #207
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's irrelevant. You said that Iran never attacked anyone. I simply proved you wrong.

    My point was that both the US and Israel have killed more people than Iran in the last half century. You have not proved that wrong.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #208
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Sorry, but I baited you into the embassy argument. How infuriated do you get when you see our embassies attacked? I'm sure, if you're any kind of patriot, it does infuriate you. Me too. That's where the military comes in. We NEED things like Marine Expeditionary Units (MEUs) that can handle these things. The 82nd and 101st Airborne are also participants in quick reaction type missions. If you need a better explanation about MEUs, here's a link Marine expeditionary unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
    It is a very expensive, very complex unit that is one of the cornerstones for our global security. They use every weapon in the arsenal. However, with recent cuts, the centerpiece of the MEU (an amphibious, tracked vehicle) has been totally ruled out. Like I said earlier, the Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle (EFV) should have been cut. It had become too pricey and the company attempting to build it displayed that they didn't know what they were doing. However, the need is still there. The current version we have leaks, has no armor, is painfully slow in the water, and is extremely old. Imagine floating along, going to secure an embassy (with rounds incoming), and you're going 8 mph (on calm waters) with no armor around you and the only weapons you have are two machine guns that are easily outranged by any coastal type gun. This is all to make sure an embassy is secure, not to go invade some country or "fight for oil" like everyone likes to say about Iraq with no proof. If we want to be diplomatic, and we want to send these emissaries to all of these foreign countries, we owe it to them to provide security if they need it. This is not a far fetched idea. It happens more than people think it does. Just google embassy evacuated by Marines and see how many pages pop up. This is just a sample of why we need a military as big as it is.
    You don't need to spend as much as the rest of the world combined to protect diplomats, We did it for a couple hundred years without creating so much debt.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #209
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You don't need to spend as much as the rest of the world combined to protect diplomats, We did it for a couple hundred years without creating so much debt.
    Actually, our country has always had some debt. Not the levels we have today though, I agree.
    Diplomatic posts used to not be the relatively cushy jobs they are now. They still aren't that great. Type murdered diplomat into google and look what pops up. I'm not saying our military should be huge just for diplomats, I was just using that as an example. Maintaining diplomacy takes a lot of manpower. Keeping trade routes open takes a lot of manpower. Rescuing Iranian fisherman takes manpower. Our military executes far more humanitarian type missions than combat. Even when Afghanistan and Iraq were both in high gear, we were still executing humanitarian missions all over the world. That helps just as much as the wars we fight. Just because you see the wars on TV all the time, doesn't mean other missions aren't being executed. Its just the news media playing to the worst story all the time. Just like you hear more about murders and rapes than you do feel good stories.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  10. #210
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You don't need to spend as much as the rest of the world combined to protect diplomats, We did it for a couple hundred years without creating so much debt.
    For that matter, name a country who does as much humanitarian work as we do. There isn't one. Who do you think does a lot of that?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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