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Thread: US military cutbacks

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    Re: US military cutbacks

    I think I remember hearing that new troops don't have to pay into the GI Bill. When I enlisted ten years ago, you had to pay $100 a month for your first year, which was a little more than 10%. But you had to either do that or opt out at the time, with no way to change your mind. With the new plan, you are automatically enrolled, just like the you are automatically enrolled in your retirement and healthcare plans.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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  2. #152
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    You do still have to pay into it. It ends up being about $2,000 when its all said and done. The GI Bill works much like Social Security in that the gov't knows that not everyone will use it. Traditionally, roughly 50% of service members use it (although 70% used it last year). In addition, and something that no one talks about, you must leave the service (I know the Marines do this, not sure what the other service's policies are) with an honorable discharge and at least 4.0 average conduct marks in service. Without going into much detail, a Marine can very easily dip below the 4.0 conduct mark (the scale is 0-5) by being overweight, being non-judicially punished (a slap on the wrist), having excessive speeding tickets, etc. There's a lot of stuff that can dip a Marine below 4.0 conduct marks. Also, if a Marine is administratively seperated from the service for something besides medical reasons, he loses his GI Bill. If you think about it, it only takes a year for someone to pay off their GI Bill. So you take 3 months of recruit training, at least 1 month of MOS training, thats 8 months a kid has to screw up bad enough that he would be kicked out before paying all of his GI Bill dues. Not likely at all.
    To be fair, I'm sure the gov't did anticipate (shocker) that 70% of servicemembers would use it. This may be an outlier, but, its still there. I believe the program, if it continues at the 50% rate, is sound and pays for itself. If the 70% usage continues, its time for our gov't to take another look at it because then it ceases to pay for itself.
    Lastly, I don't have data on this because I can't find it anywhere, but there is a pay scale of what a service member receives according to how many years he is in school. If someone gets out and goes to a short technical school, they only receive enough money to pay for those hours. It isn't a lump sum where a service member receives enough money for 3 years of college when he is only taking 6 months of classes.
    You guys can throw it in my face all you want that I said we should have a level playing field. A level playing field would mean all of you served 4 years, just like thosehonorable men and women. However, some of you choose not too. In fact, 91% of you choose not too (US Census data). So, if we want to talk about a level playing field, while those of you that went were in college, these guys were in Iraq or Afghanistan being shot at. While you were at a frat party getting hammered, they were standing post in a bunker missing their girlfriend or wife. I understand they volunteered for it. I also understand you didn't. Not all military, as some would have you believe, are citizens that can't do anything else so they join. The average Special Forces serviemember holds a bachelor's degree with many having a masters or higher. Every officer has a bachelors degree. Every enlisted man has a high school diploma or equilavent. That's more than we can say for the civilian population.
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    SOP. Dems always cut the military, move along folks nuthin too see here.

  4. #154
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Like I said, we pay into the GI Bill. It's not a handout. Just like an insurance policy or a retirement. I see nothing wrong with that.
    You're welcome for your freedom, BTW.
    So the amount you pay into the GI Bill is equal to your college tuition for the tenure of your studies there?

    YOU, BTW, have done nothing for my freedom other than participate in events which the government then uses as excuses to whittle away my freedom.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    You do still have to pay into it. It ends up being about $2,000 when its all said and done.
    Just for reference, how much does the average education received by a serviceman cost vs. how much they receive they actually pay into it? For example, if you, a Marine pays his $2,000 - can you attend an university where the yearly tuition in $15,000?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #156
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I was in the infantry and that crosses over to the civilian world less than most other MOS's. Wanna know what I did? I got up off mass and got a job. I had to fake it for a while, but eventually, I got the hang of it and went from crawling, to walking, to running.
    I like to say: The only skill I got from the military that's useful in the civilian world (hopefully) is carrying heavy objects.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Can I ask what percentage of his yearly income the average serviceman would pay into the GI bill? Also, if you do not consider the GI bill to be a handout because people pay "into it", what do you make of the social services that people pay into through sales taxes, excise taxes etc? Are they handouts?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Just for reference, how much does the average education received by a serviceman cost vs. how much they receive they actually pay into it? For example, if you, a Marine pays his $2,000 - can you attend an university where the yearly tuition in $15,000?
    When I was in ~90, it was 100/month for the first year. Not all jobs (MOSs) gave GI Bill and the College Fund. Together, they were ~50k, which could be spent over a period of 10 years once first used. It was dispersed per month according to enrollment, ~1k per month full time (~500 for part time) and was revoked for any class that the vet earns under a C (subtracted from account to be paid per month). That's ~3k/semester when fulltime. One can also work in the vet office at the school partime. I figure most GI Bill/College Fund eligible vets never use it because they stay in the military or get otherwise employed, or they don't make the grades or stay in long enough to use it all.

    So, GI is separate from the College Fund (which everyone gets?), is only for the most dangerous jobs (is that still true?) and it requires performance to be dispersed.

    It's not just "here's some cash for school, sonny!"

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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    SOP. Dems always cut the military, move along folks nuthin too see here.
    Do you realize we spend almost as much on military as the rest of the world combined???

    Would you suggest we raise taxes to pay for this excessive military spending, or continue adding it on the National debt?

    Some folks are saying we have a debt problem..........
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Do you realize we spend almost as much on military as the rest of the world combined???

    Would you suggest we raise taxes to pay for this excessive military spending, or continue adding it on the National debt?

    Some folks are saying we have a debt problem..........
    No, I think we should cut the entitlements by 600 billion too, and raise taxes on everyone by about 10%.

    But, as evidenced by page 2 of this thread, as soon as you "save" money, someone else wants to spend it.

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    Re: US military cutbacks

    How did a thread about cutting military spending become a scrutiny of the GI bill, and the college fund?


    Look, I think it's a good thing service men and women get education. Better than they getting out and becoming a drain on society, lol. How many of you have know folks that leave the military, for the first few months? **** is hard. It's a different world. You go from people depending on you, being important, and a part of a much larger whole...to being nobody in a crowd of other nobodies. For people that saw actual combat during their tenure, add to that a certain level of stress, and an aversion to sudden, loud noises. Better they have something to do that is enriching to them, than they sit at home, in their room, with the lights off, drinking excessive booze, on my dime.

    As for cutting military budget, I think it's only natural. We went at these wars all wrong. The fact we call them wars is all wrong. We never should have sent tanks, SUVs, drones, etc etc etc. What we did was the equivalent of trying to remove a tumor with a battle axe. What we needed, was a more precise instrument...and the most precise instrument on this planet is a marine sniper. Good intel + good sniping was all it would have taken to really turn the war on terror on it's ear. Terrorize the terrorists, and see how many are rushing to join up then...when, at any moment, the guy next to you could drop dead, with a huge gaping hole in his chest, and YOU don't even hear the gunshot till seconds later. No civilian casualties, no blown up buildings (well, SOME, statistically), no shot kids (unless they were shooting back). Just my .02 cents.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  10. #160
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Just for reference, how much does the average education received by a serviceman cost vs. how much they receive they actually pay into it? For example, if you, a Marine pays his $2,000 - can you attend an university where the yearly tuition in $15,000?
    It now pays 100% tuition up to the cost of the most expensive state school in any give state. For example, in Texas, the post-9/11 GI Bill will pay 100% of tuition up to $60,000 a year.

    In addition, it pays the vet a housing allowance based on a married E-5, which is anywhere from $1,000-$2,200 depending on where you live.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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