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Thread: US military cutbacks

  1. #141
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    But...but...but...this is a tax credit, not a tax cut. Please, learn the difference.

    No one--with a half a brain--is going to spend $50,000 just so they can get a $3,000 tax credit, next year; unless th actually need that employee.
    Oh I see. A policy which reduces your tax burden is not a tax cut because you want to pretend that it's not equivalent in order to avoid the obvious breakdown of your side's base argument that tax cuts for business will lead to more jobs. Got it.
    Last edited by Ikari; 01-08-12 at 10:08 PM.
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  2. #142
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But you wanted to be treated like everyone else. If so, then you make your own way through college like everyone else. Of course you're going to try to rationalize it away. People who recieve government handouts are rarely willing to give them up. And oft willing to try to argue why their handout is justified while others not. You're just part of the same group there.

    You're welcome for your education, BTW.
    The GI Bill is not a handout. It's remuneration. It is part of the compensation package, and it is earned

    You're welcome for being able to sleep in your own bed, while several hundred thousand of your peers gave theirs up.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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  3. #143
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    The GI Bill is not a handout. It's remuneration. It is part of the compensation package, and it is earned

    You're welcome for being able to sleep in your own bed, while several hundred thousand of your peers gave theirs up.
    Remuneration, eh? So they ain't getting paid the same as those not on the GI Bill eh? They don't get quite the same benefits, you know to make up for the additional pay they'll recieve by being given free education by the American taxpayer? No you say? It's not rumuneration you say? It's extra government handout in order to encourage people to join the military you say? Thought so.

    No one's current service to the military, BTW, would have anything to do with me being able to sleep in my own bed. The only impact to my freedom and liberty I've had with our involvement in these undeclared, offensive, occupational wars was negative. Thanks for taking my money and my freedom.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #144
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    The GI Bill is not a handout. It's remuneration. It is part of the compensation package, and it is earned

    You're welcome for being able to sleep in your own bed, while several hundred thousand of your peers gave theirs up.
    Its one of the perks for putting your life on the line for your country.A well deserved perks i might add.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  5. #145
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I hear it everyday, there's your proof.
    Just as I suspected. On the other hand:

    "President Obama spoke to a group of U.S. servicemen and women and veterans at a military base in Langley, VA Thursday morning. The President said that supporting the men and women who risked their lives for this country is “not a Democratic responsibility, or a Republican responsibility, it is an American Responsibility.

    The President was there to drum up support for his American Jobs Act, particularly the provision to give a tax credit to employers who hire a veteran and a bigger one if they hire a disabled veteran.

    “When I proposed this to a joint session of Congress,” the President said, “members of Congress on both sides of the aisle stood up an applauded. When the Senate votes on this, we expect votes from both Democrats and Republicans,” he said to the cheering crowd.

    Obama: Supporting Veterans is an American obligation - National economic policy | Examiner.com

    "With the passage of H.R. 674, The VOW to Hire Heroes Act of 2011 by a unanimous vote, it seems like that perhaps Congress will continue to address the needs of the veteran community. The bill, championed for a long time by veterans’ groups such as Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America and the Veterans of Foreign Wars-USA, was born from a combination of provisions from two other acts. Senator Patty Murray (D-WA), the Chair of the Senate Committee on Veterans’ Affairs, and her counterpart in the House, Representative Jeff Miller (R-FL) were both considering bills that would address the unemployment problem. The bills were combined and President Obama sweetened the deal by offering a tax credit for hiring a veteran, almost doubled if the veteran is disabled."

    "This bill and its unanimous passing may be because Congress is compelled to help the veterans’ community. Or perhaps it is because of the relentless lobbying done on behalf of veterans by groups like IAVA and VFW."

    What's in the Veteran's Jobs Bill? | veteranjournal.com
    Last edited by Catawba; 01-09-12 at 12:49 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #146
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But you wanted to be treated like everyone else. If so, then you make your own way through college like everyone else. Of course you're going to try to rationalize it away. People who recieve government handouts are rarely willing to give them up. And oft willing to try to argue why their handout is justified while others not. You're just part of the same group there.

    You're welcome for your education, BTW.
    Like I said, we pay into the GI Bill. It's not a handout. Just like an insurance policy or a retirement. I see nothing wrong with that.
    You're welcome for your freedom, BTW.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  7. #147
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Just as I suspected. On the other hand:

    "President Obama spoke to a group of U.S. servicemen and women and veterans at a military base in Langley, VA Thursday morning. The President said that supporting the men and women who risked their lives for this country is “not a Democratic responsibility, or a Republican responsibility, it is an American Responsibility.

    The President was there to drum up support for his American Jobs Act, particularly the provision to give a tax credit to employers who hire a veteran and a bigger one if they hire a disabled veteran.

    “When I proposed this to a joint session of Congress,” the President said, “members of Congress on both sides of the aisle stood up an applauded. When the Senate votes on this, we expect votes from both Democrats and Republicans,” he said to the cheering crowd.

    Obama: Supporting Veterans is an American obligation - National economic policy | Examiner.com

    "With the passage of H.R. 674, The VOW to Hire Heroes Act of 2011 by a unanimous vote, it seems like that perhaps Congress will continue to address the needs of the veteran community. The bill, championed for a long time by veterans’ groups such as Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America and the Veterans of Foreign Wars-USA, was born from a combination of provisions from two other acts. Senator Patty Murray (D-WA), the Chair of the Senate Committee on Veterans’ Affairs, and her counterpart in the House, Representative Jeff Miller (R-FL) were both considering bills that would address the unemployment problem. The bills were combined and President Obama sweetened the deal by offering a tax credit for hiring a veteran, almost doubled if the veteran is disabled."

    "This bill and its unanimous passing may be because Congress is compelled to help the veterans’ community. Or perhaps it is because of the relentless lobbying done on behalf of veterans by groups like IAVA and VFW."

    What's in the Veteran's Jobs Bill? | veteranjournal.com
    Hate to tell you this, but, the IAVA and VFW are both organizations that make money off veterans dues. It is in their best interest to support all things veteran benefit. I'm not saying they are greedy and taking our money or anything like that. Both are honorable organizations. The fact of the matter is, it would be suicide for either group to come out against this proposal. Also, I never said ALL vets feel like I do. I'm sure there are some that don't.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  8. #148
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Hate to tell you this, but, the IAVA and VFW are both organizations that make money off veterans dues. It is in their best interest to support all things veteran benefit. I'm not saying they are greedy and taking our money or anything like that. Both are honorable organizations. The fact of the matter is, it would be suicide for either group to come out against this proposal. Also, I never said ALL vets feel like I do. I'm sure there are some that don't.
    As documented, more Veterans support their benefits than oppose them.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #149
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Oh I see. A policy which reduces your tax burden is not a tax cut because you want to pretend that it's not equivalent in order to avoid the obvious breakdown of your side's base argument that tax cuts for business will lead to more jobs. Got it.
    You still don't know the difference between cutting the tax rate and giving a tax credit?

    Are you seriously suggesting that you would spend 50 grand just to save 3 grand on your taxes?

    Can you possibly understand how that won't work?

    Hell! Let's just hire a buncha people we don't have any need for, because payroll, by itself, reduces a corporation's tax burden. Whatcha' think?
    Last edited by apdst; 01-09-12 at 03:36 AM.
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #150
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    Re: US military cutbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Like I said, we pay into the GI Bill. It's not a handout. Just like an insurance policy or a retirement. I see nothing wrong with that.
    You're welcome for your freedom, BTW.
    Can I ask what percentage of his yearly income the average serviceman would pay into the GI bill? Also, if you do not consider the GI bill to be a handout because people pay "into it", what do you make of the social services that people pay into through sales taxes, excise taxes etc? Are they handouts?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 01-09-12 at 04:11 AM.
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