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Thread: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

  1. #71
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I am but I'm not.
    Adding a public option doesn't change the fundamental problem, which is a legal restriction on the offerings of insurance companies.

    With my example, with my company's HSA.
    I can't not choose, to not have the preventative medicine coverage options, for a cheaper premium.
    It's not legally allowed, even if I don't want or need it.

    Those things prevent choice and dynamism.
    I don't know that just cutting out whole areas of coverage is a solution. That's just a way to be half-uninsured. The goal here has to be for everybody to have insurance that covers at least the basic necessities at the lowest cost possible.

    Besides, you might not need prescription meds now, but maybe you will 5 years from now. If everybody just waited until they needed it, then bought the coverage, the savings would come out in the wash. They'd need the charge the people that need it twice as much to make up for losing all the folks who don't need it. It would just mean health insurance prices would rise more the older you got, it wouldn't actually save you money in the long run. It's just another species of the pre-existing conditions problem.
    Last edited by teamosil; 01-05-12 at 06:39 PM.

  2. #72
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I don't know that just cutting out whole areas of coverage is a solution. That's just a way to be half-uninsured. The goal here has to be for everybody to have insurance that covers at least the basic necessities at the lowest cost possible.

    Besides, you might not need prescription meds now, but maybe you will 5 years from now. If everybody just waited until they needed it, then bought the coverage, the savings would come out in the wash. They'd need the charge the people that need it twice as much to make up for losing all the folks who don't need it. It would just mean health insurance prices would rise more the older you got, it wouldn't actually save you money in the long run. It's just another species of the pre-existing conditions problem.
    See though, those things are not insurable events.
    You can't insure against something that's guaranteed to happen, at a low price.

    HSA's allow you to save your excess in an account, should you need to pay for prescriptions, etc. in the future.
    I get a nifty debit card just for my health related expenses, which are currently 0.

    The aggregate cost of insurance premiums would fall, if the cost sharing between the insured and the insurance company were balanced out more.
    The insured should pay for, maintenance prescriptions, doctors visits for check ups and common issues, not the insurance company.
    None of these things are insurable events.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    See though, those things are not insurable events.
    You can't insure against something that's guaranteed to happen, at a low price.

    HSA's allow you to save your excess in an account, should you need to pay for prescriptions, etc. in the future.
    I get a nifty debit card just for my health related expenses, which are currently 0.

    The aggregate cost of insurance premiums would fall, if the cost sharing between the insured and the insurance company were balanced out more.
    The insured should pay for, maintenance prescriptions, doctors visits for check ups and common issues, not the insurance company.
    None of these things are insurable events.
    It is an insurable event though. It isn't like everybody knows for a fact that medication is going to cost them between $100 and $300 a month once they reach age 70 or something. Some people have prescription medication needs that run tens of thousands of dollars a month. People can't all just save up enough for that unlikely possibility in an HSA, they need insurance for it.

  4. #74
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    It is an insurable event though. It isn't like everybody knows for a fact that medication is going to cost them between $100 and $300 a month once they reach age 70 or something. Some people have prescription medication needs that run tens of thousands of dollars a month. People can't all just save up enough for that unlikely possibility in an HSA, they need insurance for it.
    HSA's aren't for people with disabilities, they are for the average person.
    Actually HSA's offer greater coverage, because they only require people to pay for non insurable events and everything else is covered 100%.
    Traditional insurance plans still require the insured to pay for a minor percentage after the deductible is met.

    One area where the government should cover people is when they're disabled.
    Which they do half assed now.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    HSA's aren't for people with disabilities, they are for the average person.
    Actually HSA's offer greater coverage, because they only require people to pay for non insurable events and everything else is covered 100%.
    Traditional insurance plans still require the insured to pay for a minor percentage after the deductible is met.

    One area where the government should cover people is when they're disabled.
    Which they do half assed now.
    You don't have to be disabled to have outrageously high prescription medication costs. Cancer, AIDS, MS, lots of unanticipated things come with massive prescription medication costs.

    I agree with you that predictable sorts of expenses would be better handled with HSAs than insurance, but I don't agree that prescription medication costs are predictable.

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You don't have to be disabled to have outrageously high prescription medication costs. Cancer, AIDS, MS, lots of unanticipated things come with massive prescription medication costs.
    Those are disabilities though.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I agree with you that predictable sorts of expenses would be better handled with HSAs than insurance, but I don't agree that prescription medication costs are predictable.
    Not all prescription costs are predictable but most people would be fine.
    Dealing with the unlikely, through state disability coverage, is more ideal than with giving everyone to the hilt coverage on everything, through a single payer.

    Singapore uses the government sponsored HSA system and their GDP costs are lower than every country in Europe.
    Even with private spending higher than ours.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Those are disabilities though.
    Whoa, so you're saying the government should cover the costs of things like Cancer, AIDS and MS? That basically equates to a single payer system. That's where most the money goes- those sorts of conditions and the last 6 months of people's lives. I'd be on board with that, but I am shocked you would be.

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Whoa, so you're saying the government should cover the costs of things like Cancer, AIDS and MS? That basically equates to a single payer system. That's where most the money goes- those sorts of conditions and the last 6 months of people's lives. I'd be on board with that, but I am shocked you would be.
    They already do.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    They already do.
    Not sure how you mean. If somebody goes bankrupt paying for a disability and ends up in abject poverty, medicaid kicks in. Or they can get disability insurance, but that doesn't cover the medical bills. If you have insurance and are solvent, the insurance company, not the government, pays for your cancer treatment.

  10. #80
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Not sure how you mean. If somebody goes bankrupt paying for a disability and ends up in abject poverty, medicaid kicks in. Or they can get disability insurance, but that doesn't cover the medical bills. If you have insurance and are solvent, the insurance company, not the government, pays for your cancer treatment.
    If you have cancer or MS, you can get SSD or SSI (aka government coverage).
    HIV and AIDS patients have coverage from the government for their medications, it's a special program.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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