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Thread: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

  1. #61
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    The cost is irrelevant if there is not a significant amount of freedom, choice, and competition in the market.
    The public option means MORE competition and MORE choices... It is the addition of one more option.

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You mean an AIG-style bailout? A Citi-style bailout? A Bank of America-style bailout? Anything is possible by it's not very illuminating to engage in dueling hypotheticals.

    I totally agree that HCR did not focus enough on cost containment, though it does include many pilot programs that could be expanded to contain costs going forward.
    These private business bailouts are an explicit result of regulating a market to the point of idiocy.
    We've essentially regulated them to the point were they're quasi public-private entities.


    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    IMO single payer is the only way to really contain costs and it's somethig we will have to go to in the end.
    To me, single payer is a cop out.
    It's saying, "I don't want to fool with it any longer, so lets do this, because it's easier."

    It doesn't, at all, address the fundamental problems with medical care.
    It just outsources it, again, to the government.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The net increase was actually 1.4%, not 1%. Not sure where you get your numbers, but they are WAAAY off. If UnitedHealth Group alone increased it's net by 1.4% it would mean an additional $1.3 BILLION in profit.
    From the article, WellPoint Inc who has the largest membership, currently posts ~2-3 billion in profit yearly. Not really sure how a 1.4% increase in profit margin equates to an additional 1 billion in profit.

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Of course they can operate without making a profit... Do you not understand what profit means? It is money they get AFTER covering all the costs to continue to operate...

    But, in reality, capitalist markets don't result in zero profits. When they are functioning correctly, they result in very small profits. One company figures out a more efficient way to produce something than its competitors, so for a little while until they catch up, he makes a good profit, that sort of thing.

    Anyways, dude, this isn't like some political debate. Again, I am just sitting here explaining super basic, non-controversial stuff to you. This is the most basic concept in economics we're discussing here. Go take a class, go read something, stop bothering the adults.
    You say that, then try and insult my intelligence?

    I'm still waiting for you to explain to us how capitalism is designed to kill profit margins. That oughta be funny!
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The public option means MORE competition and MORE choices... It is the addition of one more option.
    How can that be, when the state and federal requirements for minimum benefits, require insurance companies not to offer a great variance of choices.
    Do they get to play outside of the rule book?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    How can that be, when the state and federal requirements for minimum benefits, require insurance companies not to offer a great variance of choices.
    Do they get to play outside of the rule book?
    Hm? Not sure how the public option has anything to do with that. Right now you have like 3 or 4 insurance companies to choose from. Once there is a public option that would be 4 or 5. More.

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You say that, then try and insult my intelligence?

    I'm still waiting for you to explain to us how capitalism is designed to kill profit margins. That oughta be funny!
    Alright dude. I'm just going to say it and take the infraction- you are hands down the stupidest poster on this site. You don't understand any of the basics in any of the areas you debate, you act like people are idiots when they bring up universally accepted facts, you don't read the posts before you reply to them, not only do you never look anything up on your own, but you arrogantly refuse to even when everybody is tell you that you're dead wrong... Nobody- conservative or liberal- ever comes out agreeing with your asinine positions on here. You have, I think, the lowest like-to-post ratio on here. You lose every single debate you enter into by a massive margin and sometimes you don't even seem to realize it. It's just pathetic. You need to go do something that you are less terrible at with your time.

    Harry, please infract me.
    Last edited by teamosil; 01-05-12 at 06:34 PM.

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Hm? Not sure how the public option has anything to do with that. Right now you have like 3 or 4 insurance companies to choose from. Once there is a public option that would be 4 or 5. More.
    More doesn't mean better.
    If I have to choose between 3-5 things, but them all being nearly the same, do I really have a choice?

    Hell my company rolled out an HSA this year for us, it's cheaper premium wise, but it's still legally required to pay for preventative medicine.
    Which is dumb because it defeats the purpose of an HSA in the first place.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    More doesn't mean better.
    If I have to choose between 3-5 things, but them all being nearly the same, do I really have a choice?
    I feel like you're arguing for my side! You're right, the insurance companies are all pretty much the same. So really now we only have one choice. Add in a public option, you expand that to two choices that are fundamentally different. They are run in totally different ways, they have different goals, different sorts of offerings. Real, meaningful, consumer choice.

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I feel like you're arguing for my side! You're right, the insurance companies are all pretty much the same. So really now we only have one choice. Add in a public option, you expand that to two choices that are fundamentally different. They are run in totally different ways, they have different goals, different sorts of offerings. Real, meaningful, consumer choice.
    I am but I'm not.
    Adding a public option doesn't change the fundamental problem, which is a legal restriction on the offerings of insurance companies.

    With my example, with my company's HSA.
    I can't not choose, to not have the preventative medicine coverage options, for a cheaper premium.
    It's not legally allowed, even if I don't want or need it.

    Those things prevent choice and dynamism.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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