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Thread: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

  1. #51
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    What if the option is less efficient than all the private choices?
    Would it still get to exist, at a loss to the government?

    You know that once we let these cats out of the bag, they're much harder to put back, even if it doesn't work out as well as everyone says.
    I blieve that the public plan was required to be self financing. It wouldn't run at a profit, but it wouldn't lose money either. It would have charged premiums just like a private plan.

  2. #52
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I blieve that the public plan was required to be self financing. It wouldn't run at a profit, but it wouldn't lose money either. It would have charged premiums just like a private plan.
    I believe there were several different ideas in the works for a public option.
    Like everything else though, I highly doubt that it wouldn't have gotten a bail out, at some point, if the benefits were outstripping the premiums.

    What we should focus on is, what causes medical cost inflation.
    That isn't addressed at all.
    The public option idea, is a "sounds nice but doesn't deal with the problems at hand" idea.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 01-05-12 at 06:04 PM.
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    They are creating their own trust fund to mitigate their loses in the future.

    On a serious note, their profit margin went from 6.8% to 8.2%. Not a big jump.
    that's over a 20% increase

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I believe there were several different ideas in the works for a public option.
    Like everything else though, I highly doubt that it wouldn't have gotten a bail out, at some point, if the benefits were outstripping the premiums.

    What we should focus on is, what causes medical cost inflation.
    That isn't addressed at all.
    The public option idea, is a sounds nice but doesn't deal with the problems at hand idea.
    You mean an AIG-style bailout? A Citi-style bailout? A Bank of America-style bailout? Anything is possible by it's not very illuminating to engage in dueling hypotheticals.

    I totally agree that HCR did not focus enough on cost containment, though it does include many pilot programs that could be expanded to contain costs going forward.

    IMO single payer is the only way to really contain costs and it's somethig we will have to go to in the end.

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    How is that a problem that legislation created? Employers choose to offer health insurance to entice employees because they could get it at a lower cost by buying group plans. Doctors decide what medical care people need because they have the expertise. There are so few options and so little competition between them because it is a very expensive market to get in to. Those aren't the result of legislation, they're just the nature of that market.
    Supply and demand is irrelevant, as long as you don't understand what profit margin is; certainly so, as long as you think corporations can operate, without making a profit.
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Just because you didn't say it, doesn't mean it isn't one of the problems.
    You might be misunderstanding my point. I'm saying that as long as those problems I listed exist, the market alone won't correct the prices. The market dynamic is busted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Profit is really marginal here and people getting stuck on it, is foolishly short sighted in my opinion.
    That's a myth the insurance companies are perpetuating. Insurance companies need to keep a huge amount of money in the stock market so they can cover any potential spike in claims from a new deadly virus or a WMD attack or whatever. They took a beating on their investments both when the dot com bubble burst and when the Bush2 collapse happened. When they report their profits and claim they're only making 1% or 2% or whatever, that is AFTER covering all their losses in the stock market. And they've been spreading those losses out across many years so that on the books it always looks like they aren't very profitable and don't owe hardly any taxes. But in reality, if you take out the investment losses they've had, they are massively profitable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    the assumption that a public option will "cure the ills" of it, is very very short sighted.
    Certainly it won't cure every problem out there in the health care industry, but we don't need to speculate about what effect it would have on costs. Dozens of countries have already done it and in every one of them it has radically reduced the price of health care without reducing quality.

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    Care to show me a link to the numbers on a working healthcare program that costs more than the US's private option only program?
    Care to show me where a Public Health Insurance system is more efficient, more flexible and better then the US one? My wife has a bum heel, we called, made an appointment with a specialist, that was on Friday, saw them on Wednesday, got X-rays, Cortazone shot, and full treatment with prescription in one 2 hour visit.

    Total out of pocket to me was $20. I pay $280 a month to cover a family of three for full medical dental and vision. I know, anecdotal evidence, but it's just a simple example of getting the job done. My experience with "free" healthcare, ala the US Navy wasn't ever so well done. First we had to go to the Clinic, get referred to specialist, then have an appointment for treatment. Total time for a similar situation was 3 weeks. Call me gun shy here, but real life never seems to match the rosey claims of those wanting free **** at the expense of everyone else.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil
    We can't possibly afford NOT to have a public option! Medical costs in the US are doubling every 7 years. At this rate, in 20 years health care for one person will cost more than the median income. We can't possibly afford that. Countries with public options pay half or less what we do for medical care, but get higher quality care. The whole point of the public option is to force costs down.
    The cost is irrelevant if there is not a significant amount of freedom, choice, and competition in the market.
    The cost is also irrelevant if government calls all the shots.
    Example. Prisoners pay zero for their health care. I do not therefore consider it better. Sad but true.

    That said, how will it force costs down? Give us the top 5 ways, is the point. The point will be, that it's not simply "costs", that will be reduced. And when it comes to my health, I'm not interested in the Wal-Mart of ****ing health care, you can choose that for yourself, and I'll choose mine.

    I also don't want to subsidize obese people who stuff their face and sit on their ass all day. I'd prefer to be in a lower risk pool, with lower premiums, because I sacrifice to stay healthy, and them subsidizing their poor lifestyle choices with my sacrifice is bad in every conceiveable way. Single pool my (ideal weight) ass.

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    And who exactly did the insurance companies "buy off"? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the Republicans. There was no public option because there was not enough Democrat support for one.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Supply and demand is irrelevant, as long as you don't understand what profit margin is; certainly so, as long as you think corporations can operate, without making a profit.
    Of course they can operate without making a profit... Do you not understand what profit means? It is money they get AFTER covering all the costs to continue to operate...

    But, in reality, capitalist markets don't result in zero profits. When they are functioning correctly, they result in very small profits. One company figures out a more efficient way to produce something than its competitors, so for a little while until they catch up, he makes a good profit, that sort of thing.

    Anyways, dude, this isn't like some political debate. Again, I am just sitting here explaining super basic, non-controversial stuff to you. This is the most basic concept in economics we're discussing here. Go take a class, go read something, stop bothering the adults.

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