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Thread: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Serious question: where do you come up with this stuff?
    Kiddo, it is the most basic economics there is. You know those graphs with the lines for "supply" and "demand"? What those mean is that the "demand" line is how many of the widget people would buy at various prices, and the "supply" line is the cost to produce that many widgets. Where the lines cross is what the market will, at least in theory, set the price. That means zero profit- they are pricing it at cost. That's the most basic econ 101 concept there is...

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    We can't possibly afford NOT to have a public option! Medical costs in the US are doubling every 7 years. At this rate, in 20 years health care for one person will cost more than the median income. We can't possibly afford that. Countries with public options pay half or less what we do for medical care, but get higher quality care. The whole point of the public option is to force costs down.
    I think a public option would be great, if we could pay for it. I don't believe would could in fact keep the costs of a public option down. I don't disagree that medical costs are increasing, or that a public option wouldn't be a great thing. My problem is that we don't have the money for the program.

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Frolicking Dinosaurs View Post
    Mr. V, first-world countries with single-payer universal healthcare spend less and have better outcomes. The higher the percentage of private option in country, the most healthcare cost and the less effective it is. Go do some real research into the numbers.
    I have.

    You are the one that's not paying attention to the numbers.
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    We can't possibly afford NOT to have a public option! Medical costs in the US are doubling every 7 years. At this rate, in 20 years health care for one person will cost more than the median income. We can't possibly afford that. Countries with public options pay half or less what we do for medical care, but get higher quality care. The whole point of the public option is to force costs down.
    You really think that's the whole point of the Public option? You're ****ing deluded then.
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I think a public option would be great, if we could pay for it. I don't believe would could in fact keep the costs of a public option down. I don't disagree that medical costs are increasing, or that a public option wouldn't be a great thing. My problem is that we don't have the money for the program.

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    The part that costs money is making sure everybody gets health care- the subsidy. That's already in place. The public option wouldn't cost anything. It would charge just like insurance companies do. The only difference is that it would not have to include a margin for profit and it would be focused on trying to keep costs down. The pressure on the profit companies that would create would force them to slim their profit taking and look for ways to be more efficient.

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You really think that's the whole point of the Public option? You're ****ing deluded then.
    What do you think is the point of the public option? And please don't tell me it's some whacky conspiracy theory....

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The part that costs money is making sure everybody gets health care- the subsidy. That's already in place. The public option wouldn't cost anything. It would charge just like insurance companies do. The only difference is that it would not have to include a margin for profit and it would be focused on trying to keep costs down. The pressure on the profit companies that would create would force them to slim their profit taking and look for ways to be more efficient.
    Like the post office?
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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Like the post office?
    The post office was actually formed for a different reason- because the mail delivery was the backbone of our command and control system in those days. I don't really have an opinion either way on it's role today. It probably does force the private delivery services to keep their prices lower than they would otherwise... But at the same time it's mostly just become a mechanism for snail mail spam. Might be time for it to go.

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    So you think the insurance company/tea party hysteria had no impact? Why do you think they did it?
    To blame the Tea Party at that stage is to blame Republicans, Moderates, Liberals, or whatever else influences a politician. I think that the most obvious answer is that there were moderate Democrats who knew that this would not play well in their home districts. This is not a new phenomenon, much less a "Tea Party" one. In hindsight, it was a political process that Obama botched enormously. And OBTW, he has botched just about everything politics since elected. Nov 2010 was precise feedback on this. His current reelection campaign is more evidence of same.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Wow... Ok, lets start at the beginning... Capitalism is the theory that if you have many producers competing for customers they will each try to make the better product at the lower price to get more customers until the product is being sold at as near to cost as possible. That's why capitalism is efficient- because it is a system for eliminating profit margins. Without capitalist competition companies would just charge several times what it costs them to produce things. That massive profit taking waste is the main problem capitalism is designed to solve. But, that doesn't always work right left to it own devices. Health care, the way it is set up now, isn't a properly functioning market. It has lots of issues. For one, consumers don't negotiate directly with producers. Consumers get a job, the employer picks and insurance company, a doctor decides what goods and services the person should buy, the insurance company negotiates actual costs. So that breaks the whole supply and demand thing. The employer doesn't care about the product's quality and the doctor doesn't care about the cost. Also, it is a very hard industry to break into. It requires tens or hundreds of billions of dollars. So there are really only 3 or 4 major players. That means very little competition is actually going on. The idea with the public option is that it would force them to start competing again by establishing a lower cost alternative that they would need to compete with.
    There are many Conservatives, including myself, who also see our entire health insurance system as one giant mess. Who also see a very deliberate role for government in it, precisely with regard to insurance. I firmly believe in insurance regulation. But it is also government that, through various efforts over the years, has made bad decisions, set up systems doomed to fail, and which has created this giant mess. Government has to be a part of the solution .......... but not as it has been.

    It is also for another thread, and Administration. Obama cannot possibly get it done. Wrong guy. And it ain't close.

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    Re: Insurers Profit From Health Law They Fought

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Kiddo, it is the most basic economics there is. You know those graphs with the lines for "supply" and "demand"? What those mean is that the "demand" line is how many of the widget people would buy at various prices, and the "supply" line is the cost to produce that many widgets. Where the lines cross is what the market will, at least in theory, set the price. That means zero profit- they are pricing it at cost. That's the most basic econ 101 concept there is...
    You patronize me, accuse me of being ignorant of economics, then claim that it's ok for a business to not make a profit?


    Really???

    Do you know where corporate taxes actually come from?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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