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Thread: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    If you are traveling 20 miles a day it's better to get a bicycle rather than spending $40,000 on a vehicle, and the expense of a home solar station, that will be useless in the trade-in market.
    I mentioned intelligent posts earlier. Apparently that didn't 'take'.

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    A bicycle is not much good if your commute requires you to travel on highways. Or, if you need to travel during the work day. Or if, for example, it rains or snows where you live. Or is really hot. Or really cold.

    And there's no reason that an EV would be useless in the trade-in market, as they can be recharged from the grid if desired.
    Ya, the last thing we need is for anyone in this obese nation to get wet, hot, or cold. That would be an inconvenience and we cant have that can we?

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    1. There is no evidence or statement of fact that the Keystone XL oil would be processed by American refineries (there is speculation that it could be simply shipped overseas at said refinery, which is claimed to be in a free trade zone (Port Arthur, TX)). That oil from sands projects such as that in Canada is very dirty and very low quality is common knowledge in the industry -- it would be difficult to refine, more costly to refine, and result in greater pollution to refine, all compared to typical 'American' oil (light sweet Texas crude). Bottom line, the nastiest type of oil there is (more or less).

    2. Were the oil to be processed by American refineries, there is no evidence or statement of fact that the refined product would be used or sold in America (again, there is speculation that it could be shipped overseas, possibly due to quality issues mentioned above). In that scenario, America gets the pollution, the oil companies get the profits, and some other country gets the oil.

    3. The number of American jobs seems to be rather 'manipulated'. Other non-oil-industry estimates are around 5,000 construction jobs, which would of course end when pipeline construction is completed. There is evidence and statement of fact that the job estimates by those who stand to profit from construction of the pipeline that their job numbers are "job-years"; for example, if 1,000 jobs are created for 3 years, then they count that as 3,000 jobs. FYI.

    It should be noted that roughly half of the Keystone pipline project has been completed and is in use -- from Canada to Cushing, Oklahoma. One "XL" portion of the pipeline (phase 3) would simply run from Cushing OK down into Texas, and would be used to transport American oil as well. Phase 4 would be an additional pipeline from Canada to Steele City, Nebraska.
    It really doesn't matter to me whether the oil goes south or not though, as mentioned, I'd prefer it went to our neighbors. If Americans don't want however many jobs there might be, or the reliable oil supply; then that is their decision and a rather short-sighted one.. Canadians will just sell it to someone else, and are doing so.

    And after you spend the next generation trying to find alternatives sources of energy rather than coal or oil, others who never made these same sacrifices will certainly take advantage of it immediately.

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    [...] And there's no reason that an EV would be useless in the trade-in market, as they can be recharged from the grid if desired.
    I don't think that was exactly what was being referred to, but we're clearly dealing with the 'just say no' crowd -- so whatever they do mean is mostly irrelevant or illogical.

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    QUOTE=AdamT;1060096450]A bicycle is not much good if your commute requires you to travel on highways. Or, if you need to travel during the work day. Or if, for example, it rains or snows where you live. Or is really hot. Or really cold.
    Those conditions weren't mentioned but is a $40,000 plus investment worth 20 miles a day? Taxis might be less.
    And there's no reason that an EV would be useless in the trade-in market, as they can be recharged from the grid if desired.
    Few people are buying new Volts. Who would seriously want to buy a used one?? Would you?

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I mentioned intelligent posts earlier. Apparently that didn't 'take'.
    Perhaps you still don't understand what "ad hominem" means.

    "Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."
    An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting)".

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It really doesn't matter to me whether the oil goes south or not though, as mentioned, I'd prefer it went to our neighbors.
    The speculation that I've read is that it would go to Europe. The point is that the argument that it will be used here is not based upon any stated fact(s).

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And after you spend the next generation trying to find alternatives sources of energy rather than coal or oil, others who never made these same sacrifices will certainly take advantage of it immediately.
    The viable alternative is here today, as I've already outlined (as least as far as gasoline is concerned). Countries that continue to champion outmoded forms of energy that are mostly controlled by extremist nations and added greatly to their trade deficit will, eventually, go the way of the source of that energy (i.e., the dinosaurs).

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Those conditions weren't mentioned but is a $40,000 plus investment worth 20 miles a day? Taxis might be less.
    From an economic standpoint it would not be justified at today's prices -- unless perhaps you include the externalities (i.e., the cost of responding to global warming). But prices will come down over time.


    Few people are buying new Volts. Who would seriously want to buy a used one?? Would you?
    Sales have been less than expected, but they are increasing every month, even with the recall. EVs are still too expensive for mass appeal. I'd certainly be happy to buy a used Volt.

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I don't think that was exactly what was being referred to, but we're clearly dealing with the 'just say no' crowd -- so whatever they do mean is mostly irrelevant or illogical.
    Apparently the US auto market, apart from a few experimental souls, have "just said no" to the Chevy Volt.

    The PJ Tatler Happy First Birthday Chevy Volt: No Profits, Few Sales, Four Fires and One Big Obama Administration-General Motors Cover-Up

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    The average electric commuter vehicle (Chevy Volt, for one example) could be completely powered by a home solar station. There is no need for anyone who drives less than 20 miles per day to ever use another drop of gasoline on the highway ever again. Right now. Today. Tell our children. . . .
    Do you have any idea how long it would take for a home solar station to fully charge an electric vehicle??

    First of all, solar power is extremely ineffecient. It has TONS of potential, but with todays technology, it is the most expensive form of energy per watt. It is very expensive to buy and install, and represents a huge investment that will be obsolete within a few years.

    The shortcomings of solar power notwithstanding, it would take a full day of constant sunshine, meaning no cloud coverage and direct sunlight, to get a single charge. If you never had to go more than a short distance from your home, then that would work just fine, but if thats the case you really have no reason to spend $40 to $60,000 on the car and charging system in the first place. But a scooter or something.

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