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Thread: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

  1. #121
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    Juvenile... Will you send me the link to the kit your talking about?
    I thought I had already posted that link. Well, look, I sure did -- in reply to one of your posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl, in post #100, replying to Dpetty View Post
    [...] If you're going to criticize or marginalize solar, you should at least be aware of what is out there. 5.52kW Online Solar Grid Tie System

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    You see, that's where the logic of your argument breaks down:
    1. You assume that people cannot afford a car. Interesting assumption.

    You assume that people are that irresponsible with their money? Let me give you some particulars....Between my beautiful wife and myself we are $70K range of income, with a average mortgage. I own a 14 year old f-150, paid for, and will run til the wheels fall off it. And we bought a Fusion for my wife two years ago that cost us about $24K...I think that is about average as to what most people do in their budgets...I wouldn't be caught dead in some rollerskate for $40K....

    j-mac
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    That would be a reasonable analysis if one were using typical 'truck' AGM batteries. Fork lift batteries seem to live in the 10-15 year range, but at this level of detail we are merely quibbling. Solar is not necessarily going to be any cheaper than electricity, it's simply going to eliminate a sizeable need for it to be generated at remote sites and transmitted over long distances.

    Over 10 years you may pay $24,000 in electric bills. If you instead pay $24,000 for a solar system over a period of 10 years, the net is the same -- except you have eliminated the fossil fuel consumption of the former, not to mention the associated pollution (claims that pollution from batteries would be just as bad is, quite simply, ludicrous).

    Another thing you have eliminated is the financial market's ability to manipulate and thereby profit from energy (think Enron), which is why there is so much time, money, and effort being expending to maintain the shaky status quo.
    You dont understand, im not saying solar tech is not a valuable resource. I have said that many times. If every home could have their roof covered in solar panels that would be awesome. Dont even get me started on what i think about the antiquated power grid in this country. I think we should all be working on making our home energy independent. That is not the issue. What i said was that with todays level of technology, using solar power to charge an electric vehicle is not very cost effective or practical. i didnt say it wasnt possible. As far as the pollution hazard that the batteries represent, it may or may not be just as bad, but you have refused to even acknowledge it at all.

  4. #124
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    If the average user consumes $2000 a year in gasoline then it would cost $375 for the equivalent in electricity alone. That's a savings of $1625 per year in fuel without the need for building anymore new power plants, not including any price adjustments of future fuel cost increases. That would replace 400 million gallons of gasoline consumed per day in the US alone. That's a gross retail sales of $200 billion per year back in peoples pockets. Once they bring the cost range of electric vehicles within the 20k mark we should see an exodus into that market. They're quicker, quieter, cleaner, more reliable and less maintenance. And the battery conundrum will be easily solved by technology soon. There really isn't a choice and the old dinosaurs have outlived their use. That's us...lol
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  5. #125
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    [...] Our conversation began as simply a system used for charging your Volt, you said youself during the day there would be no electricity usage. Dont start changing the boundries of our discussion.
    No, our conversation began with me making a simple, factual statement, followed by your really bizarre reply that was, for the most part, totally out of touch with facts and reality, bringing us to this point where you have attributed statements to me that I have not made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty, in post #60 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl, in post #43 View Post
    The average electric commuter vehicle (Chevy Volt, for one example) could be completely powered by a home solar station. There is no need for anyone who drives less than 20 miles per day to ever use another drop of gasoline on the highway ever again. Right now. Today. Tell our children. . . .
    Do you have any idea how long it would take for a home solar station to fully charge an electric vehicle??

    First of all, solar power is extremely ineffecient. It has TONS of potential, but with todays technology, it is the most expensive form of energy per watt. It is very expensive to buy and install, and represents a huge investment that will be obsolete within a few years.

    The shortcomings of solar power notwithstanding, it would take a full day of constant sunshine, meaning no cloud coverage and direct sunlight, to get a single charge. If you never had to go more than a short distance from your home, then that would work just fine, but if thats the case you really have no reason to spend $40 to $60,000 on the car and charging system in the first place. But a scooter or something.

  6. #126
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You assume that people are that irresponsible with their money? [...]
    You assume that everyone drives a 14-year-old F-150? Your anecdote is worthless... how many $40K and up cars do you think are sold every year? None?

  7. #127
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl, replying to another View Post
    You assume that everyone drives a 14-year-old F-150? [...]
    Matter of fact, weren't you on the road ahead of me on the interstate yesterday? If that bucket of bolts can't do the speed limit, get it back on the farm

  8. #128
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    You assume that everyone drives a 14-year-old F-150? Your anecdote is worthless... how many $40K and up cars do you think are sold every year? None?
    Yeah worthless... I drive an 13 year old Dodge Dakota.... SOOooo off base there.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    You assume that everyone drives a 14-year-old F-150? Your anecdote is worthless... how many $40K and up cars do you think are sold every year? None?

    Nope, and I didn't say that either now did I? There are plenty of fools that are parted with their money for dumb gimmicks.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Yeah worthless... I drive an 13 year old Dodge Dakota.... SOOooo off base there.
    So, you're on what, your 4th set of ball joints?

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