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Thread: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

  1. #101
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    [...] once you have charged your vehicle, those batteries are going to need to recharge before it can provide another charge. And thats gonna take a while. [...]
    Again, the insistence on stating the obvious puzzles me. In a typical solar system, the batteries are charged during the day, and are discharged ('used') during the evening and night. [...]
    How many homes today are using energy solely supplied through solar systems?
    Who has claimed that they are?
    Well, you did sir. By implying that the volt could be charged through a solar source, knowing that the owners of these cars primarily charge them by plugging them in at the end of their day into their home energy.
    Come on, quit wasting everyone's time -- including mine -- with such a stupid strawman.

  2. #102
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Yeah, those clever Chinese are lending us money at near zero percent interest. Bastards.
    Actually, they re not. They have REDUCED the amount of US debt they own in the last six months. What they are doing is as we see here. Buying resources.

    However, if you want to understand who is "loaning us money at near zero percent interest", you need look no further than the NEW #1 holder of US debt. Care to take a WAG ?
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    The Federal Reserve ................... say Inflation anyone ?

  3. #103
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl
    It is not a hypothesis. It is a path to reducing oil consumption.
    In other words an unproven Hypothesis.
    I can't understand the problem -- really. You need proof that driving a Chevy Volt, within local battery range, and charging it at night via stored solar energy (which has been my position in multiple posts) would reduce oil consumption?

    You can't logically deduce that on your own?

    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So, anyone that doesn't buy into your line of bull, is ignorant, and complacent eh? Nice.
    I'll let the posts speak for themselves.
    Last edited by Karl; 01-09-12 at 02:38 PM.

  4. #104
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl, in post #98 View Post
    [...] The lack of solar production at the residential unit level is a national failure, aided and abetted by the oil industry and their deluded, shallow minded, and often greedy followers. [...]
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac, in post #99 View Post
    [...] You won't address the fact that hybrid plug ins are charged using coal fired electricity in this country, which makes these cars as much, if not bigger polluters than my F-150. [...]
    It looks to me like I just did -- before your attempt to, once again, derail the thread.

    Now if you'd like to concede failure on the oil argument, we can move onto something else, although I'd suggest a separate thread. But simply trying to deflect from your loss in order to cover it up is not going to work.

    However, since it has seemed to be needed at other points in this thread, I will state the obvious -- until electric vehicles can be powered by clean sources of energy, the total 'green' benefit will not be realized. If someone wants to use that as an argument to not even go down the renewable path, then go right ahead and enjoy the failure that argument will produce. In the meantime, regardless of the source of the electricity used to recharge the vehicle, it will most definitely reduce oil consumption, which is the subject of the thread.
    Last edited by Karl; 01-09-12 at 02:42 PM.

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I can't understand the problem -- really. You need proof that driving a Chevy Volt, within local battery range, and charging it at night via stored solar energy (which has been my position in multiple posts) would reduce oil consumption?

    You can't logically deduce that out on your own?

    Really?


    I'll let the posts speak for themselves.
    It is not a simple issue of "reducing oil consumption". It also reduces our standard of living, as that electricity costs you more, either directly if you pay the actual cost of its production, or indirectly, if government subsidized.

    All this nonsensical talk of getting out ahead on green-energy production is near the stuff of stupidity. All it will do at this time is get us behind further on our comparative disadvantage. China, and other nations against which we must compete economically, are not going to compel themselves to switch to green energy before it is time. We have already seen Spain as a massive fail in ts endeavor, and yet folks still argue non-existent merits as if we are blind to the advantage-disadvantage examples currently available to us.

    Green Energy is a farce at this time. It will be a fool's gold for at least the next 50 years, if not substantially longer.

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    See, you had a chance to clear everything up and perhaps -- perhaps -- make a point. Yet you wasted that chance.
    In that case, you've wasted lot's of chances in this thread.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  7. #107
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I can't understand the problem -- really. You need proof that driving a Chevy Volt, within local battery range, and charging it at night via stored solar energy (which has been my position in multiple posts) would reduce oil consumption?
    No, I think you could do it. But, there are some factors that mitigate this scenario.

    1. The cost of installing solar in a home, although getting cheaper due to tax payer subsidies, is still prohibitive in relative output potential.

    2. Upkeep and maintenance issues are far greater for a public that has less, and less time, nor ability to maintain these systems. So ongoing cost is higher than traditional energy.

    3. Then there is the issue that warranted or not, recent fire hazards, coupled with the cost of these cars are still out of reach of the masses.

    I find it amusing that liberal progressives will attack the oil, and energy sectors screaming about subsidies going to these entities, but at the same time turn your blind eye to the massive subsidies that prop up this green push to the point that without it, the green sector would collapse.

    You can't logically deduce that out on your own?

    Really?
    Why not? Are you really so arrogant that you think that only those that agree with you have a corner on logic?

    I'll let the posts speak for themselves.
    I accept your concession.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  8. #108
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    It looks to me like I just did -- before your attempt to, once again, derail the thread.

    Now if you'd like to concede failure on the oil argument, we can move onto something else, although I'd suggest a separate thread. But simply trying to deflect from your loss in order to cover it up is not going to work.

    However, since it has seemed to be needed at other points in this thread, I will state the obvious -- until electric vehicles can be powered by clean sources of energy, the total 'green' benefit will not be realized. If someone wants to use that as an argument to not even go down the renewable path, then go right ahead and enjoy the failure that argument will produce. In the meantime, regardless of the source of the electricity used to recharge the vehicle, it will most definitely reduce oil consumption, which is the subject of the thread.
    I think the key word here is reduce. It will not eliminate our dependancy on oil. The Volt still has a gas engine, it still has moving parts that require lubrication. Be as green as you want, but we are not even close to ending our dependancy on oil. Maybe lessening our consumption but thats only a drop in the bucket to the slew of things we use oil for. think of the number of things that are made out of petroleum products! The plastic that makes up a good portion of that volt is made from.... (drum rollll) pretoleum!

  9. #109
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, I think you could do it. But, there are some factors that mitigate this scenario.

    1. The cost of installing solar in a home, although getting cheaper due to tax payer subsidies, is still prohibitive in relative output potential. [...]
    If you put a pencil to it, you'll find that the amortization period is about 10 years (accumulated savings in electricity costs equal original cost of installation).

    Of course, at that time a new battery bank will likely be needed, but that is merely a fraction of the original installation cost. 10 years going forward, the homeowner will actually save money. Not to mention the benefits in the first 10 years of reducing fossil fuel consumption as well as reducing load on the grid and related infrastructure.

  10. #110
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    You didn't understand anything I posted previously, did you? A 5.5kW solar system, including two dozen 230 watt panels and a 6kW inverter, will set you back $12K (plus batteries).
    Plus mounting racks @ $2,000
    Plus installation @ $5,000.
    Plus maintenance
    Plus higher homeowner's insurance premiums
    Plus the high cost of battery disposal

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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