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Thread: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

  1. #91
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    It was Dan's post that I criticized. Try and keep up.
    See, you had a chance to clear everything up and perhaps -- perhaps -- make a point. Yet you wasted that chance.

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    What? So your crystal ball tells you so? Look, the low end is that it would create at least 30,000 sustainable jobs.
    Your crystal ball tells you that?

    Even Tea Party hand puppet John Boehner only says 20,000 unspecified jobs (see the last page of your own CS Monitor link). Better ease up on the Kool Aid . . . .

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ha, is that all you got? The big bad oil companies are duping everyone? so predictable.
    As we can see, some are more gullible than others

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Again, the insistence on stating the obvious puzzles me. In a typical solar system, the batteries are charged during the day, and are discharged ('used') during the evening and night.
    How many homes today are using energy solely supplied through solar systems?

    In a typical Chevy Volt operation, the car is driven during the day, and recharged during the evening and night. A full charge would be in the neighborhood of 10kWh, or about 10 hours at about 9 amps (120 volts). That is within the capabilities of a smallish or moderate home solar installation ($10K and up).
    Your hypothesis falls apart when you consider that most hybrid owners today do not have their charging capability strictly from solar energy. In fact most are on the public grid which is supplied largely from coal. That's right, not so green eh?...So, we are subsidizing cars in the volt's case that cost up to $250K to build each one, so that they can plug into a coal generated source of energy, that Obama is trying to kill. Wonderful.

    It may save you some time if you accept that I will make no claims that cannot be backed up with logic and/or facts, nor do I ramble on about things which I do not know. I rarely shoot from the hip, which is why I rarely have any trouble proving my point (or causing problems for those that do shoot from the hip).
    Well, you certainly think highly of yourself don't you? Address the coal energy issue with hybrids, then we can move on to where, and how dangerous these batteries are.

    j-mac
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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Again, the insistence on stating the obvious puzzles me. In a typical solar system, the batteries are charged during the day, and are discharged ('used') during the evening and night.
    So your house doesnt use any electricity during the day?

    In a typical Chevy Volt operation, the car is driven during the day, and recharged during the evening and night. A full charge would be in the neighborhood of 10kWh, or about 10 hours at about 9 amps (120 volts). That is within the capabilities of a smallish or moderate home solar installation ($10K and up).
    The 2012 Chevy Volt uses a 16KWH battery and that is good for UP TO 35 miles. that number will decrees as the battery ages. Im not sure what the 9 amps number is that your refering to. Are you talking about the amps required to run the inverter? Most homes get around 6 hours of direct (optimal) sunlight a day. thats when your solar panel is most likely to be generating at manufacturers specs. Assume you take a discharged 100-amp hour battery and charge it with a 30-watt solar panel under ideal summer time light conditions. After a full week the battery will be just about fully charged. Using this example you can see that it will take at least 100-watts of solar power to recharge a 100-amp hour battery in a few days. Keep in mind that it takes direct sunshine on the surface of the panel to produce the maximum rated power of a solar panel. Conditions such as an overcast sky, shadows, improper mounting angle, equatorial direction or short winter days will reduce the actual solar panel output to below the rated values. You need to go learn the difference between watts, volts, and amps before we can go any further.[/quote]



    It may save you some time if you accept that I will make no claims that cannot be backed up with logic and/or facts, nor do I ramble on about things which I do not know. I rarely shoot from the hip, which is why I rarely have any trouble proving my point (or causing problems for those that do shoot from the hip).
    I think your plethora of one liners are proof to the contrary...
    Last edited by Dpetty; 01-09-12 at 01:04 PM.

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Your crystal ball tells you that?

    Even Tea Party hand puppet John Boehner only says 20,000 unspecified jobs (see the last page of your own CS Monitor link). Better ease up on the Kool Aid . . . .
    So even if every single one of these jobs was temporary, you argue that its better to keep people unemployed rather than have them support themselves, even for a short period of time. And at the end of that time we have a secure source of oil to boot... Sounds like a liberal to me...

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Oil, coal and natural gas are limited non-renewable resources that we have no choice but to replace, especially as the geopolitical ramifications of securing these resources are becoming untenable. But in the meantime we have no choice but to use what dwindling sources that are left in order to make the transition. It's the speed and affordability at which we should be switching to renewable sources that is the true argument. Electric, solar, wind, hydro and other renewable sources are all that's realistic, unless technology turns out some form of abundantly available clean source through chemical reaction such as Hydrogen based. Nobody can possibly calculate the initial economic impact and turnover cost of replacing the gas, oil and coal based industries and their related infrastructure with the comparative new sales, manufacturing and employment boom of emerging technologies. But it must be done with diligence and determination if we are to survive the energy hungry future of modern civilization and existence. These are non disputable facts of common reason that every party should eventually agree on.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    How many homes today are using energy solely supplied through solar systems?
    Who has claimed that they are?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Your hypothesis falls apart when you consider that most hybrid owners today do not have their charging capability strictly from solar energy.
    It is not a hypothesis. It is a path to reducing oil consumption. The lack of solar production at the residential unit level is a national failure, aided and abetted by the oil industry and their deluded, shallow minded, and often greedy followers.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Address the coal energy issue with hybrids, then we can move on to where, and how dangerous these batteries are.
    Since the thread is about oil, I'll pass on the attempt to change the subject and derail the thread. I will, however, note that ignorance and complacency are far dangerous than batteries.

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Who has claimed that they are?

    Well, you did sir. By implying that the volt could be charged through a solar source, knowing that the owners of these cars primarily charge them by plugging them in at the end of their day into their home energy.

    It is not a hypothesis. It is a path to reducing oil consumption.
    In other words an unproven Hypothesis. And if people don't accept your as of yet unproven technology, you'll force it through regulation, or pricing, right? Liberal ideas are so good that they have to be forced on people.

    The lack of solar production at the residential unit level is a national failure, aided and abetted by the oil industry and their deluded, shallow minded, and often greedy followers.
    Says you. There are to date, NO industrialized countries that have shown solar to be a viable replacement to fossil energy. But in your mind it is a failure that we don't adopt an energy source that is unable to achieve what you dream of to begin with.

    Since the thread is about oil, I'll pass on the attempt to change the subject and derail the thread.
    Talk to the hand. You won't address the fact that hybrid plug ins are charged using coal fired electricity in this country, which makes these cars as much, if not bigger polluters than my F-150.

    I will, however, note that ignorance and complacency are far dangerous than batteries.
    So, anyone that doesn't buy into your line of bull, is ignorant, and complacent eh? Nice.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: PetroChina buys entire Alberta oilsands project

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    So your house doesnt use any electricity during the day?
    What is the point of a stupid question? If it is supposed to make me look stupid, then may I suggest contemplating the possibility of a self-inflicted wound?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    Im not sure what the 9 amps number is that your refering to.
    That doesn't surprise me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    Assume you take a discharged 100-amp hour battery and charge it with a 30-watt solar panel under ideal summer time light conditions. After a full week the battery will be just about fully charged.
    You didn't understand anything I posted previously, did you? A 5.5kW solar system, including two dozen 230 watt panels and a 6kW inverter, will set you back $12K (plus batteries). That is a moderate size solar system, which will provide peak power of 240 volts at 22 amps. This is equivalent to 120 volts at 44 amps, or a peak battery charging current of 392 amps at 14 volts DC -- sufficient to fully charge 46 of your 100 amp-hour batteries in a six hour period (under optimal conditions) based upon a 50% discharge limit, upon which you would have a 29kW reserve (battery) capacity with which to then charge your 10kW Chevy Volt battery (which, if using the 240 volt charger, would take about five hours).

    In fact, with that system you could charge three Chevy Volts every night (assuming six hours of sun every day in between, and assuming that you used the solar battery reserve for no other energy needs).

    If you're going to criticize or marginalize solar, you should at least be aware of what is out there. 5.52kW Online Solar Grid Tie System

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    You need to go learn the difference between watts, volts, and amps before we can go any further.

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