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Thread: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

  1. #61
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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Recess appointments are overused by just about every administration. Bush sure overdid it. They should only be used when there is a clear and present need and the senate cannot be convened for over a week in the future. Additionally, they should only last 3 months from the next time senate gavels IN session. There is a reason seats require a confirmation process.

    I'm not happy with this use of it, but that is largely because I'm not a fan of it in general.
    Omniscience just sucks without omnipotence!

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    The Senate has followed the proper protocols. Protocols that Obama's own Justice Department argued for. These protocols compel a President to act with the advice and consent of Congress. Such advice and consent Obama has shunned. Now Obama has taken a further unprecedented step to take power from the Legislative. The community organizer needs to be shown the door.
    As usual, Obama has no respect for the separation of powers. Why aren’t the democrats going ballistic over this? What was it the democrats hated about Bush again?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    Recess appointments are overused by just about every administration.
    I disagree. Those positions are meant to be filled. If the senate refuses to allow them to be filled, regardless of who is in the white house, the senate failed. Often times they won't even hold a hearing on a nominee at all. They'll let the entire session timeout leaving the position vacant without even having considered one nominee for it. That should never happen. They should be scheduling hearings within, at the very most, 2 weeks of the time the president nominates someone. If they reject a nominee- which should be a very rare occurrence- they should give very clear guidance on exactly why they did and what sort of nominee they would accept. What is happening currently is that they are just rejecting virtually every nominee, or refusing to hold hearings at all. IMO recess appointments are working as intended as a check against that.

    And, honestly, I think that's more or less how the senate likes it. Approving a nominee is a tricky thing politically. They never can really gain from it. The only thing that can happen to them is that they lose points if they approve somebody and then it turns out later that they have some skeleton in their closet or something. So, IMO they'd rather just ignore the process and let them all timeout so the president alone has political accountability for the appointees. Which seems to be pretty much what they're doing.

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    As usual, Obama has no respect for the separation of powers
    What the heck... The separation of powers!? The constitution gives the president the power to make recess appointments explicitly. That is an executive power. It is the senate trying to take over that power with this "never officially declare recess" scheme...

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    Recess appointments are overused by just about every administration. Bush sure overdid it. They should only be used when there is a clear and present need and the senate cannot be convened for over a week in the future. Additionally, they should only last 3 months from the next time senate gavels IN session. There is a reason seats require a confirmation process.

    I'm not happy with this use of it, but that is largely because I'm not a fan of it in general.
    I disagree. If the president has the power to nominate, then congress better have a ****ing good reason to not pass it. This is true for a democratic president and republican congress, or for a republican president and democratic congress. We, the people of this country, deserve to have the positions that work for us filled.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I disagree. Those positions are meant to be filled. If the senate refuses to allow them to be filled, regardless of who is in the white house, the senate failed. Often times they won't even hold a hearing on a nominee at all. They'll let the entire session timeout leaving the position vacant without even having considered one nominee for it. That should never happen. They should be scheduling hearings within, at the very most, 2 weeks of the time the president nominates someone. If they reject a nominee- which should be a very rare occurrence- they should give very clear guidance on exactly why they did and what sort of nominee they would accept. What is happening currently is that they are just rejecting virtually every nominee, or refusing to hold hearings at all. IMO recess appointments are working as intended as a check against that.

    And, honestly, I think that's more or less how the senate likes it. Approving a nominee is a tricky thing politically. They never can really gain from it. The only thing that can happen to them is that they lose points if they approve somebody and then it turns out later that they have some skeleton in their closet or something. So, IMO they'd rather just ignore the process and let them all timeout so the president alone has political accountability for the appointees. Which seems to be pretty much what they're doing.
    I would argue that it's then time to introduce a bill to force them to hold hearings. Heck, the senate is ignoring a ton of bills right now because it doesn't politically suit them to put them up to vote or even admit they exist. Maybe it's time that actions such as confirmations, bill debate/voting, etc get a deadline. It doesn't mean that it is okay for every president to just start waiting for the gavel so they can shove through their picks. The original intention of recess appointments was to cover positions when long holidays were in or an outgoing senate was out of session.
    Omniscience just sucks without omnipotence!

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I disagree. If the president has the power to nominate, then congress better have a ****ing good reason to not pass it. This is true for a democratic president and republican congress, or for a republican president and democratic congress. We, the people of this country, deserve to have the positions that work for us filled.
    I don't think the seats should sit empty (see previous post). I just think this is the wrong way to fix it. And that goes for any party, as well. Senate/House should not be able to ignore things that need doing.
    Omniscience just sucks without omnipotence!

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    I would argue that it's then time to introduce a bill to force them to hold hearings. Heck, the senate is ignoring a ton of bills right now because it doesn't politically suit them to put them up to vote or even admit they exist. Maybe it's time that actions such as confirmations, bill debate/voting, etc get a deadline.
    Yeah I'd be on board with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    The original intention of recess appointments was to cover positions when long holidays were in or an outgoing senate was out of session.
    That's true. That was what the founders envisioned to be the problem- openings coming up during holidays. They figured it would be too big of a disaster to allow an entire agency of the executive branch, for example, to go without having a head even for a month or two, so they needed to allow the executive to fill those positions to get us through the interim. What we have happening now is a radically bigger version of the same problem. We have key positions in some cases that have been vacant now for multiple sessions of Congress because the senate refuses to allow them to be filed. There are federal judges who have been waiting for more than 2 years just to get a hearing, and the federal court system is basically in crisis because of how short handed they are as a result. Lots of cases now take 6+ months just to get a ruling on a simple motion. It's breaking the ability of government to function. So, long story short, I think this isn't how the founders envisioned the problem arising- I think they assumed no Senate would do something so foolish frankly- but it is the problem that they aimed to solve with the recession appointments clause- the problem of government agencies lacking people in key positions.

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I disagree. If the president has the power to nominate, then congress better have a ****ing good reason to not pass it. This is true for a democratic president and republican congress, or for a republican president and democratic congress. We, the people of this country, deserve to have the positions that work for us filled.
    They did. The GOP made it abundantly clear as to what the issues were. Do you even know ?

    But Obama wanted to play politics, using one political maneuver to bypass the system of advise and consent. So the Senate GOP used another maneuver, which even Obama himself had earlier supported. A maneuver that says "No, this is too important. No gimmicks. We have to negotiate this". And what does Obama do ? He ignores the process. Violates what he had already said needed to be honored.

    The country is worse for this. What a jackass you folks voted into office.

  10. #70
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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Yeah I'd be on board with that.



    That's true. That was what the founders envisioned to be the problem- openings coming up during holidays. They figured it would be too big of a disaster to allow an entire agency of the executive branch, for example, to go without having a head even for a month or two, so they needed to allow the executive to fill those positions to get us through the interim. What we have happening now is a radically bigger version of the same problem. We have key positions in some cases that have been vacant now for multiple sessions of Congress because the senate refuses to allow them to be filed. There are federal judges who have been waiting for more than 2 years just to get a hearing, and the federal court system is basically in crisis because of how short handed they are as a result. Lots of cases now take 6+ months just to get a ruling on a simple motion. It's breaking the ability of government to function. So, long story short, I think this isn't how the founders envisioned the problem arising- I think they assumed no Senate would do something so foolish frankly- but it is the problem that they aimed to solve with the recession appointments clause- the problem of government agencies lacking people in key positions.
    I agree with almost all of this. I still hold that recess appointments are a poor fix (at the very least because it's inadequate). Hell, I'd even be fine with the President making a ton of them for every empty seat ... as long as it's followed within 30-60 days by a bill trying to address the root cause.
    Omniscience just sucks without omnipotence!

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