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Thread: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I believe in democracy. And if you don't have enough votes to kill an agency, then work on getting more votes. Don't play games with filibusters and perpetual pro forma sessions to keep the inevitable from taking place.

    obstructionism in the face of majority rule, is wrong.
    I agree, up to a point. I do agree that the pro forma session thing, and alot of the way the Senate works, is in obstructionism territory.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So now you've moved the goalpost to say only "watchdog" departments need more accountability? Why?
    No, I said they need more oversite. As "watchdogs" they now exercise authority over entities other than themselves. Not so Defense. That is power. This new Department was invested with enormous power, lack of oversight, and lack of the usual Congressional controls.

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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    No, I said they need more oversite. As "watchdogs" they now exercise authority over entities other than themselves. Not so Defense. That is power. This new Department was invested with enormous power, lack of oversight, and lack of the usual Congressional controls.
    But how does having a board run it provide more oversight? If Congress wants to oversee it more, it can hold oversight hearings, etc. like it does with all other agencies. Maybe the appropriations thing is valid, but not a board.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    But how does having a board run it provide more oversight? If Congress wants to oversee it more, it can hold oversight hearings, etc. like it does with all other agencies. Maybe the appropriations thing is valid, but not a board.
    Pehaps you need to consider if you are given authority and a budget to investigate others. Is there a difference in the decision making if just you decide, or if 5 of you have to discuss, and then decide ? Is more eyes and input a halmark of greater oversite ? Are you just as able to abuse your power with a Board as when it was just you ?

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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Pehaps you need to consider if you are given authority and a budget to investigate others. Is there a difference in the decision making if just you decide, or if 5 of you have to discuss, and then decide ? Is more eyes and input a halmark of greater oversite ? Are you just as able to abuse your power with a Board as when it was just you ?
    Oversight and not abusing power are two different things. Oversight means Congress overseeing so power isn't abused. A board doesn't give Congress more oversight.

    As for abuse of power prevented by a board, I ask again - do you think all agencies should be run by boards?

    There are plenty of ways we prevent abuse of power, even by agencies run by single people. They must follow all kinds of rules designed to prevent that.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Pehaps you need to consider if you are given authority and a budget to investigate others. Is there a difference in the decision making if just you decide, or if 5 of you have to discuss, and then decide ? Is more eyes and input a halmark of greater oversite ? Are you just as able to abuse your power with a Board as when it was just you ?
    Again, WTF are you talking about? What about Treasury, Justice, and the EEOC, for example.? These are agencies headed up by one individual, and they have investigative powers.

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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Oversight and not abusing power are two different things. Oversight means Congress overseeing so power isn't abused. A board doesn't give Congress more oversight.

    As for abuse of power prevented by a board, I ask again - do you think all agencies should be run by boards?

    There are plenty of ways we prevent abuse of power, even by agencies run by single people. They must follow all kinds of rules designed to prevent that.
    You've been answered. You just don't like the answer. Rules do not mean squat unless there are enough folks looking, and with enforcement ability, to be sure they are followed.

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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Again, WTF are you talking about? What about Treasury, Justice, and the EEOC, for example.? These are agencies headed up by one individual, and they have investigative powers.
    True, except for the EEOC, which is of course a "commission" meaning it has several members that vote.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Again, WTF are you talking about? What about Treasury, Justice, and the EEOC, for example.? These are agencies headed up by one individual, and they have investigative powers.
    Which of those are funded by the Federal Reserve ? Up to 12% of the budget of the Federal Reserve ?

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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    You've been answered. You just don't like the answer. Rules do not mean squat unless there are enough folks looking, and with enforcement ability, to be sure they are followed.
    No, you didn't answer adequately. If you can't, just say so.

    Plenty of agencies with plenty of power are run by single people and work just fine.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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