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Thread: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by TomFitz View Post
    The Republicans were trying to kill the agency. They wanted a series of changes to the legislation that would have made it so weak, that every banker, businessman or con man with a friend in the US Chamber of Commerce could go to their congressmen and get anything the agency tried to do reversed.

    The wanted an agency that would be vulnurable to congressional and lobbyist pressure. Remember that this same group of Republicans are busy trying to undo what little finacial reform has taken place since the crash too.

    The Republicans wanted no agency at all, but short of that, they would take one they could bully and emasculate (and spend the next 30 years proposing to do away with).
    So instead of making a transparent agency that is accountable to Congress for its actions, you prefer to leave it as is where it has no accountability to anyone except the Fed Reserve...?
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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    So make it to where each member of the board must be chosen in the same way presidential appointies are chosen. Presidents chooses an appointee, Congress agree's/rejects.
    But the claim was that a board of several people would be more accountable somehow.

    Why is that any more accountable than doing the same thing with a single appointee?
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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    How did using the NLRB to harass Boeing work out ? That was one huge use of an agency solely for political gain.
    Bull****. Nothing came of it. They never even took action. So yeah, it worked out fine.
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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Bullchit. How many agencies have so much power residing in one entity ? Not elected ? Not beholden to Congress ? Try "0".
    Hmm, you've got things mixed up. First of all, no agency is supposed to be answering to Congress if it has any executive power at all. That's the separation of powers. It is unconstitutional for Congress to make an agency that executes the law and answers to it instead of the president. So, that would not be "0", but "all".

    Congress has some sort of informal oversight over a lot of agencies where they make them come in for hearings and Congress issues statements and whatnot, but they report to the president and do not take orders from Congress.

    But, most agencies do answer to the president, which is also a political position of course.

    When they really want to enable an agency to aggressively go after corporate abuses, what they do is make it an entirely independent agency so that it isn't even answerable to the president either. Examples of agencies that are independent to allow them to go after corporations include the FTC, FCC, NLRB, NTSB and SEC. They also make independent agencies for other reasons. The FEC is independent because it couldn't really regulate elections if the incumbents had direct control over its actions. The SSA is independent because they wanted to isolate it completely from the general budget.

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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    But the claim was that a board of several people would be more accountable somehow.

    Why is that any more accountable than doing the same thing with a single appointee?
    Seems that the issue of "board vs director" had some significance to Obama. He didn't budge....
    Last edited by pragmatic; 01-05-12 at 08:05 PM.


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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by Cole View Post
    Seems that the issue "board vs director" had some significance to Obama. He didn't budge....
    Because it was nothing but a delaying tactic. The law was written, the agency was created (by Congress) -- no need for pointless changes now.
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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    But the claim was that a board of several people would be more accountable somehow.

    Why is that any more accountable than doing the same thing with a single appointee?
    How to put this.

    When an agency of this type has a director that is not held accountable to anyone but one person (the president) the potential for abuse is high.

    When an agency has a board each of the members must agree to any policy that is enacted. This puts a check on abusive policies. (not saying it can't be done...just that it is harder...just like our Congress/Senate) Unlike when there is a director who can pass policies when ever he/she feels like it. Having a board also creates less of a chance that someone will be bribed. (not saying it can't be done...just that it is harder)

    The other part of the accountability that was wanted (the part that you ignored) was that Congress funds it instead of the Federal Reserve. This makes them beholden to the People far more than say a President in his last term of office.
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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    How to put this.

    When an agency of this type has a director that is not held accountable to anyone but one person (the president) the potential for abuse is high.

    When an agency has a board each of the members must agree to any policy that is enacted. This puts a check on abusive policies. (not saying it can't be done...just that it is harder...just like our Congress/Senate) Unlike when there is a director who can pass policies when ever he/she feels like it. Having a board also creates less of a chance that someone will be bribed. (not saying it can't be done...just that it is harder)

    The other part of the accountability that was wanted (the part that you ignored) was that Congress funds it instead of the Federal Reserve. This makes them beholden to the People far more than say a President in his last term of office.
    The president is the chief executive. While it's a bit redundant to say it, the executive branch *should* ultimately be accountable to the president. It should *not* be answerable to Congress as that would be a violation of the separation of powers.

    In other words, why should this agency be any different than, e.g. the department of agriculture, or energy, or transportation? Are any of those agencies headed up by a committee? Is decision making by committee now considered a virtue? It sure isn't in the private sector.

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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    But the claim was that a board of several people would be more accountable somehow.

    Why is that any more accountable than doing the same thing with a single appointee?
    Incorrect. My post noted two distinct points of opposition by the GOP. First was the Board, which keeps the entity form being run by a Czar, and the second was accountability, as in funding. The point of accountability via funding had already been noted several times, but you were unaware, and chose to link accountability to teeh Board, which was not a point made, but rather a bad assumption by you. Earlier posts and links clearly explained this. It is inherent upon you to make the effort to know the topic if you are to then criticize. I an others are not going to repeat the entire argument with every post.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Bull****. Nothing came of it. They never even took action. So yeah, it worked out fine.
    It delayed Boeing with some efforts in SC. For expedience sake, Boeing also made a deal with folks back in WA state. The alternative was to delay longer until Republicans took over everything and reversed the idiot politics of Obama and his lackeys on the NLRB. You need to read a little bit more before you post, btw.

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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The president is the chief executive. While it's a bit redundant to say it, the executive branch *should* ultimately be accountable to the president. It should *not* be answerable to Congress as that would be a violation of the separation of powers.

    In other words, why should this agency be any different than, e.g. the department of agriculture, or energy, or transportation? Are any of those agencies headed up by a committee? Is decision making by committee now considered a virtue? It sure isn't in the private sector.
    Incorrect. Those are cabinet positions, but more importantly, none are funded by the Federal Reserve.

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