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Thread: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    We are supposed to be a system of checks and balances libs. What you just got now is a further erosion of such. so that a Republican President can do same, thus denying a hostile minority from its prior Constitutional authority. All of you are in an outrage that teh Senate blocks nominations. WTF are they supposed to do ... pass all of a Presidents appointees ? What kind of system is that ?
    They are suppose to make sure appointees are qualified, not leave departments with missing people in order to get legislative concessions. There's a process for changing legislation.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    Liberals only care about power grabs when a republican is doing it and vice versa.

    This is the government we deserve.
    its not a power grab, when the GOP refuses to allow the appointment of ANYONE to head an agency.

    when such extreme circumstances exist, extreme solutions are needed.

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    They are suppose to make sure appointees are qualified, not leave departments with missing people in order to get legislative concessions. There's a process for changing legislation.
    yeah, and the GOP says: "**** that!!! we may not have the votes to kill the new agency, but we sure can abuse the appointment process to make sure they have no head!!!"

    with such petty games going on, Obama is right to do what he did.

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    how come no one is complaining about the GOP refusing to allow the appointment of ANYONE to this position, as a way of opposing the new agency?

    is this the right & appropriate use of the confirmation process?
    Yes. It is part of the way political power, as enabled by the Constitution, has always been used. Again, its a part of the checks and balances. The Democrats have done this same sort of stalling. But both parties played by the rules. Both used the 3-day gavel rule when they thought it important enough. Further, Obama had the window to make a proper Recess Appointment one day prior, but which would have only been good thru 2012. By breaking the rules, Cordray now serves through 2013. Care to explain that ?

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    When Bush used loopholes and ambiguity of the rules, or broke from tradition, Democrats whined and wailed about it. They did it with Bush doing reconciliation on a primarily budgetary bill, then turned around and attempted to use it on a Health Care Bill. They complained about recess appointments when Bolton got named to the U.N.

    Are some Republicans being hypocritical here? To a point yes. So are some Democrats. And if we’re being honest, the two situations are not identical since Obama is not just doing a recess appointment but doing so in a fashion that has largely been unused for over a century and is “ambiguous” at best constitutionally. Bush’s ,by and large to my memory, were standard style recess appointments but simply of people who were undergoing strict scrutiny just prior to the recess with little chance of being confirmed.

    What I will say is this…in a year or five, if the Republicans win back the White House, my sympathy for democrats if Republicans start using the same stretches and ambiguity as they have been threatening and actually doing with regards to this kind of stuff will be nil. I won’t support the Republicans doing it, but I’ll have no sympathy for Democrats who supported pushing the boundary further then said action comes back to haunt them.
    It can't be denied that there is a level of hypocrisy involved, but in my opinion this is not an apples/apples comparison. Democrats blocked Bush appointees because they objected to the nominees, which is the purpose of the advice and consent process. Republicans were blocking Cordray not because they objected to him, but because they objected to the existence of the agency to which he had been appointed. They made no bones about that, stating quite clearly that they would not approve ANY nominee unless or until Democrats agreed to amend that law that had already passed by a super majority. That was an improper use of the advice and consent power and it is is the main distinction between what Democrats did and what Republicans were trying to do.

    Since Democrats took back the Senate Republicans have abused the rules of the Senate to an unprecedented extent. For the good of the country, I would hope that Democrats rise above that level if the Republicans should retake the Senate, but I can't say I'm sanguine about the prospects.

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    They are suppose to make sure appointees are qualified, not leave departments with missing people in order to get legislative concessions. There's a process for changing legislation.
    Show me where that is how the process is to work ? Are you saying that the Founders did not understand, and anticipate, politics ? The GOP was using their Constitutional Powers to stymie what they saw as Executive overreach. That is a perfectly proper political concern.

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Another logic fail. The procedural methods do not bypass the Constitution. They are there as part of the process intended by the Founders. While the concept of Recess Appointments has certainly taken on power likely not originally intended, so too did the Senate have the power to check such, when it truly wanted to.

    Now, by Obama's new definition, the President can make a Recess Appointment on any weekend. Are you happy ?
    It's not failed logic....failed logic is trying to run a government where every freaking action turns into a major fight.

    You wanna change legislation? There's a process for that.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Obama defies Congress with ‘recess’ picks

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    its not a power grab, when the GOP refuses to allow the appointment of ANYONE to head an agency.

    when such extreme circumstances exist, extreme solutions are needed.
    never said this was a power grab.

    What Obama did is not a right, it is a power. He has the power to do recess appointments, and the senate has the power to throw them out when they reconvene.

    That is why it is ok in what he did. The nonsense about extreme circumstances is idiotic though. They rightly have the power to reject his choices, no sense crying about it.

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Another logic fail. The procedural methods do not bypass the Constitution. They are there as part of the process intended by the Founders. While the concept of Recess Appointments has certainly taken on power likely not originally intended, so too did the Senate have the power to check such, when it truly wanted to.
    And do you think the founding fathers had the intent that congress was in session if a gavel was hit and so called in session for 40 seconds? I don't think so.

    The GOP was playing games and got called on it. Look, you guys want to be in session, then have it really be in session and not this mickey mouse games.

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    Re: Obama Defies Congress With ‘Recess’ Picks. Could Provoke Constitutional Fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Show me where that is how the process is to work ? Are you saying that the Founders did not understand, and anticipate, politics ? The GOP was using their Constitutional Powers to stymie what they saw as Executive overreach. That is a perfectly proper political concern.
    there is only one Constitutional way to oppose the creation of a new agency, and that is to vote it out of existence. if you don't have the votes, you're **** out of luck.

    using the appointment process to offset their lack of votes, is an abuse of power & the Constitution. The GOP has some ****ing nerve accusing Obama of anything.

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