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Thread: Police kill armed eighth-grader in Texas school

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    Re: Police kill armed eighth-grader in Texas school

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Good god you guys - who knows! Maybe he found it and thought it was cool, maybe he was being bullied and thought he was going to defend himself . . . we have no clue and I think it serve no purpose right now to assume we know anything.
    Or more likely suicide by cop.

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    Re: Police kill armed eighth-grader in Texas school

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Wow - all I feel is sad. I have no strong opinion. Just sad.

    Sad a child can get ahold of a weapon so easily.
    Sad no one knew he had it.
    Sad he took it to school - sad he did anything.
    Sad no one stopped it before it ended in a tragic death.
    Sad that everyone was so terrified - no doubt imagining Columbine and other tragedies while they waited without knowing
    Sad that they didn't just shoot to disarm or maim - but to kill.
    Sad that this type of situation is becoming more common place and the killing of armed children is actually occurring more frequent in our world.

    We're there warning signs - notions - thoughts - threats? Anything before this happened?
    Shoot to maim?
    Shoot to disarm?
    What planet do you live on?

    Shoot at the central mass, there is no other option!

    Or do you believe the Hollywood crap about shooting in the arm or leg being a realistic consideration?
    Have you ever fired a weapon?
    Do you realise that the pulse in your finger can throw a shot out by a foot in any direction at 25 yards?

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    Re: Police kill armed eighth-grader in Texas school

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Well, I for one feel terrible for the boy's family and for the cops involved. I can't imagine having to live with knowing that a teenager was killed brandishing what turned out to be a pellet gun.

    It was not the fault of the police. They did was they were trained to do, what they had to do. Nonetheless, this is still going to traumatize the crap out of them, and all the kids in that school who heard/saw it happen.

    A tragedy caused by the utter stupidity and volitility of a childish teenaged brain. Damn.
    Yea. The police did what was reasonable. Suicide by cop is always traumatic for the cop and for the family. I am sorry he is dead. Sometimes we cause bad things to happen to us.

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    Re: Police kill armed eighth-grader in Texas school

    I feel for the cops and the parents who are both in auguish over what they could have possiblably done to avert this tradegy.

    Since we now know that the boy had just assualted another student prior to being in the cafeteria area at that school saying he was going to shoot everyone, I believe it is safe to say that he was not in his right mind. We may never know what the stressor(s) was that lead this child to take these actions. The behavior described sounds like something sent him in a blind rage - and a 15 yo boy in that state is going to be irrational.

    I'm not questioning the police actions. They did what they had to do to protect the other children in that building and themselves from what appeared to be a real weapon.

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    Re: Police kill armed eighth-grader in Texas school

    One thought is that this could have been a lot, lot worst.

    If he had managed to get a higher caliber gun he could have and most likely would have caused more injuries and possible death of an innocent child.
    I don't really think you could kill someone with a pellet gun but I have a friend who lost an eye to one.

    I know you shouldn't categorize people but I believe this young man was headed down a dark path and the violence from him was going to escalate. It is akin to youth who torture animals and the dark path they usually follow. It is a shame and unfortunately we have seen these acts before and will see them again.

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    Re: Police kill armed eighth-grader in Texas school

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm not saying you're wrong, but these are all interrelated. It's not just about guns or just about parenting or just about access or just about a disturbed child. It's about all of them.
    I think I can agree, but to a point. The biggest issue here was that this kid didn't have a safety net. Not only is that parenting 101, but that is just child psychology 101. I have worked with kids. I have taken classes on educational psychology, and I have had friends who have shown symptoms of depression and things like that. You have to have a way to get help to kids like this, and that is the only way to stop these kinds of problems. The best way to stop a problem is to make sure it never exists, and that starts with prevention at home by simple talk. Sad.


    PS on an unrelated side note. Your avatar looks like the symbol for Ruger.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Police kill armed eighth-grader in Texas school

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Attachment 67120729Attachment 67120730Attachment 67120731Attachment 67120732

    I have no idea if these look realistic to someone who knows firearms...but these are all "realistic blowback airpistols." Maybe that's the problem. How is anyone, in split second decision-making timeframes, supposed to know the difference?
    Only the 3rd. An 8th grader isn't getting his hands on something that expensive and rare. I would question the 1st, but there are a lot out there that can easily be stolen. Far mor ecommon. The other 2 don't like anything special to me other than just a handgun.

    I will say that you can't in a split second decision. It makes me question how this situation was approached. I assume the cops rolled out fast and entered the school without any knowledge. I believe that is SOP for active shooter situtations. Police should enter and contain and STOP the threat as quickly as possible. My question is what happened at the end. 3 shots? If 3 shots were fired that means that all parties were probably stationary. And did the police talk to the kid? There are so many questions about course of action, but like you said there is no way to distinguish. They had no choice.

    The only answers to be had are WHY did he bring the toy in.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Police kill armed eighth-grader in Texas school

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Just like Michael Moore. Turning a sad issue that isn't about GUNS into a political platform. The fact is this wasn't a GUN issue. It was the issue of crappy and irresponsible parenting, of poor school management in not paying attention to a child in distress, and 100 other sad issues (and perhaps one of SAFE ownership before it is ever an issue of guns).

    I feel horrible for the officers who now have to question themselves for the rest of their lives about this. The fact is that they did have to defend their life, and I cannot fault them for that. It is easy to judge a situation like this from the outside, especially when you cannot access the emotion of the situation when it happens to you as a person.
    From what I know the two kids from Columbine had pretty normal upbringings. Same with the vTech killer.

    The Psychology Behind School Shootings: Protests Against and Reflections of a System That Fails Us | CORRUPT.org: Conservation & Conservatism

    Saari, like Auvinen, was brighter than most of his school mates and thus found himself at odds with his social surrounding. Like many intelligent young people, Saari chose to socially distance himself from mainstream society and instead nurture personal interests. While Auvinen was reading philosophy like Nietzsche, Plato and Linkola, Saari listened to industrial-electronic music and watched horror movies, both of which are cultural areas that are famous for their provocative content and anti-mainstream aesthetic. And like many intelligent students who in one way or another come off as strange or socially awkward, Saari faced the psychology of the mob and learned what it means to be resented by people who hate you because you're smarter than everyone else:
    These are two examples of school shooters who don't fit the mold you prescribe of "bad parenting". Furthermore:

    While Cho reacted to the American suburban lifestyle of sex, money and alcohol, Pekka-Eric and Matti understood the basic problems underlying the democratic foundation to our Western societies: Smart people are bullied, dumb people rise to power. Stupidity reigns. This is why Pekka-Eric appreciated movies like Idiocracy and philosophers like Nietzsche, describing the psychology behind the mass and its impetus to enact revenge on anyone being successful. Unsurprisingly, Auvinen and Saari were good friends:
    You have highly intelligent individuals who are killing for specific reasons that they have worked out through careful observation of their surroundings. Though the attacks are in no way justified, the individuals carrying them out simply can't be brushed off as the products of bad parenting. Supporting this is this:

    There are no profiles per se on who a school shooter really is. Most generally are good students, come from all types of races and family situations . Also, school violence doesnít occur to be a spur of the moment decision. In fact, most have shown explicit planning and detail in laying out their attacks and some have written manifestos and made home movies of their plans. Most in fact, donít keep their plans secret. They actually hint and talk about it with others, prior to the event. Most shooters know their victims and the idea that they shoot no one they knew, just doesnít hold true. Most attackers also didnít threaten anyone prior to the incident and most werenít loners.

    Read more at Suite101: The Profile of a School Shooter: The psychological makeup of individuals involved in school violence | Suite101.com The Profile of a School Shooter: The psychological makeup of individuals involved in school violence | Suite101.com
    So what can we surmise from all of this: The first point is that school shooters are outcasts. The second is that they tend to be good/average students. The fact that they range from good to average leads me to conclude that their parents do have some sort of involvement in their lives and the reasons kids resort to violence has nothing to do with "bad parenting" but available means.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Police kill armed eighth-grader in Texas school

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So what can we surmise from all of this: The first point is that school shooters are outcasts. The second is that they tend to be good/average students. The fact that they range from good to average leads me to conclude that their parents do have some sort of involvement in their lives and the reasons kids resort to violence has nothing to do with "bad parenting" but available means.
    Agree with you all the way up to this point. An entire post with valid research that shows why young men commit mass murder, and then you throw all of that out to blame it on the availability of the weapons.

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    Re: Police kill armed eighth-grader in Texas school

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    Agree with you all the way up to this point. An entire post with valid research that shows why young men commit mass murder, and then you throw all of that out to blame it on the availability of the weapons.
    Why not the available means? Guns do what knives can't. They allow for the attack of multiple individuals, they can be fired from a relatively safe distance, etc. Have you ever heard of a school attack be carried out with a knife? Sure they happen but I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that they victim count is MUCH lower. So then what do we have? Guns provide the perfect means to carry out a school shooting and are thus the most readily available and sought out tool of a school shooter.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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