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Thread: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provisions...

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    So you'd rather give Santorum a leg up?
    We will ahve to choose between the lesser of two evils, but Obama has not performed anywhere near as well as hoped for. This cannot be ignored. If there was a republican candidate I could vote for, I would vote republican. Paul is the closest, but he is not likely to win.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We will ahve to choose between the lesser of two evils, but Obama has not performed anywhere near as well as hoped for. This cannot be ignored. If there was a republican candidate I could vote for, I would vote republican. Paul is the closest, but he is not likely to win.
    If Paul doesn't win (and he won't) I'll be voting some third party. There will be someone to vote for. I did it in 2008 and I haven't regretted my vote.

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    If Paul doesn't win (and he won't) I'll be voting some third party. There will be someone to vote for. I did it in 2008 and I haven't regretted my vote.
    Still, for me, depends on who the republicans nominate. I could not risk a Santorum win, for example.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Still, for me, depends on who the republicans nominate. I could not risk a Santorum win, for example.
    I understand that. I'm not going to knock anyone for that. It's why I voted for Bush in 2000.

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We will ahve to choose between the lesser of two evils, but Obama has not performed anywhere near as well as hoped for. This cannot be ignored. If there was a republican candidate I could vote for, I would vote republican. Paul is the closest, but he is not likely to win.
    Obama didn't perform as well as expected, no. However, he did not perform horribly nor did he harm the country, at least not even near the level of the hyperbole many liberals seem to be suggesting. The idea that people would stay home and increase the potential of someone like Santorum or even Romney (who knows what the hell he'll even do in office) doesn't make much sense to me.

    We're talking about choosing who might have to appoint Supreme Court justices, who is going to advance gay rights, who is going cut off or extend programs to people who still haven't found jobs yet. This is far too serious for me to sit at home because Obama didn't push harder on the healthcare bill or reduce unemployment to 4%.

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Obama didn't perform as well as expected, no. However, he did not perform horribly nor did he harm the country, at least not even near the level of the hyperbole many liberals seem to be suggesting. The idea that people would stay home and increase the potential of someone like Santorum or even Romney (who knows what the hell he'll even do in office) doesn't make much sense to me.

    We're talking about choosing who might have to appoint Supreme Court justices, who is going to advance gay rights, who is going cut off or extend programs to people who still haven't found jobs yet. This is far too serious for me to sit at home because Obama didn't push harder on the healthcare bill or reduce unemployment to 4%.
    I would agree with that up until he sgned this bill. Very poor judgment here, and now we have to hope the courts do their job. This was a major blow to him IMHO, and have expressed my disappointment to him at his website. Not that that will change anything. But if there was a valid alternative, I would vote for it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    1) First of all, and most obvious, Obama blasted Bush for using signing statements, and now here he is, using one.
    Fair point.

    2) An Obama signing statement doesn't mean a thing, once Obama leaves office. A different president could negate it in a New York minute.
    The bill expires before his term ends though.

    3) Just because Democrats in Congress didn't have the backbone to challenge Bush on his signing statements doesn't mean that Congressional Republicans won't have the backbone too.
    Like they challenged Bush's? Spare me the indignation.

    Here is the deal, folks. The Obama administration has let loose upon the land a law that is just as Odious as the Alien and Sedition Acts, which were signed into law by John Adams. The law is unconstitutional. Period. But where is the Democratic outcry in Congress..... You know, the kind of outcry we heard almost every day during Bush's reign? I only hear Democratic hypocrisy, cloaked in silence.
    Except last time I looked directly that the bill language, the bill had been fixed.

    Now, maybe the ACLU is on to something additional in the bill that I missed. I don't know. But I'm not sure they have this right.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We will [ha]ve to choose between the lesser of two evils, but Obama has not performed anywhere near as well as hoped for. This cannot be ignored. If there was a republican candidate I could vote for, I would vote republican. Paul is the closest, but he is not likely to win.
    The lesser of two evils is still evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    If Paul doesn't win (and he won't) I'll be voting some third party. There will be someone to vote for. I did it in 2008 and I haven't regretted my vote.
    If you are looking for third parties, some of the ones running a Presidential candidate are Green Party, Justice Party, Reform Party, and the Socialist Party. Other parties can be found here (United States presidential election, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

    Edit:


    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post

    Except last time I looked directly that the bill language, the bill had been fixed.

    Now, maybe the ACLU is on to something additional in the bill that I missed. I don't know. But I'm not sure they have this right.
    The bill still allows for the indefinite detention of US citizens on the President's whim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    This foolishness again boya? I clearly explained that this act does in fact allow for the indefinite detention of US citizens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Actually, that's not true at all. Here's the thing, this bill does not grant the President any new powers, rather, it solidifies and codifies old ones into law. Under the Patriot Act people were detained indefinitely (Imprisoned by the Patriot Act -- In These Times) (GrepLaw | Photographer Arrested "Under Patriot Act") and the 2006 Military Commissions Act gives the President the power to label protesters unlawful enemy combatants (JURIST - Hotline: Challenging the Military Commissions Act). The definition of unlawful enemy combatants is so vague to the point where it can include US citizens.
    Edit 2: John Turley who (GW Law -- Faculty Directory)
    • Is the second most cited law professor in the country
    • Has worked as both the CBS and NBC legal analyst during national controversies
    • Ranks 38th in the top 100 most cited ‘public intellectuals’ in a recent study by a well-known judge
    • Is one of the top 10 lawyers handling military cases
    • Has served as a consultant on homeland security and constitutional issues
    • Is a frequent witness before the House and Senate on constitutional and statutory issues

    agrees that this law allows for the indefinite detention of US citizens (Final Curtain: Obama Signs Indefinite Detention of Citizens Into Law As Final Act of 2011 JONATHAN TURLEY)
    Last edited by Mr. Invisible; 01-04-12 at 03:17 PM.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    The lesser of two evils is still evil.
    True enough, But I can't make a choice that isn't there.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    True enough, But I can't make a choice that isn't there.
    Yes you can, vote third party
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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