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Thread: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provisions...

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    However, I noted before that Section 1031 does include US citizens. Thus, the two sections, 1031 and 1032, contradict each other.
    1031 is no longer 1031 in the new version.
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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    The bill did enjoy bipartisan support, after all.
    It still does, All of the GOP presidential candidates except Ron Paul and Jon Huntsman support the Patriot Act.
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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    It still does, All of the GOP presidential candidates except Ron Paul and Jon Huntsman support the Patriot Act.
    So do all of the current Democratic Presidents.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Actually it can be used against US citizens as the bill states that "the requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States." However, the wording of the bill is extremely important as it states quite clearly that the military detaining US citizens is not a requirement, meaning that it isn't mandatory that you be detained. Yet that doesn't mean that the US military doesn't have the option of detaining US citizens.
    It also doesn't mean that the US military doesn't have the option of confiscating all chocolate ice cream since, by your reasoning (and that of others), anything that is not specifically prohibited is therefore permitted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Please show me that clause as I read the bill and Section 1031 does not exempt US citizens.
    You must be looking at an older version of the bill. Here is what was passed by the Senate, and what became law (note: the House version, and the law itself (not yet available at the Gov't Printing Office) numbers this section 1021 but the text and the subparagraph nomenclature is the same):

    "Section 1031(e) Authorities- Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States."

    You can see this on page 428 of the 926 page PDF, line 10: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...112s1867es.pdf

    You can find an HTML link at Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress) but you MUST click on the link that says S.1867.ES (otherwise you will get the old version of the bill and you will not find sub-paragraph (e).

    This has all been posted before at one of the several threads here on the subject.

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    1031 is no longer 1031 in the new version.
    1031 and 1032 are the Senate numbering scheme (S 1867).

    In the House version (HR 1540), which is what was actually passed into law, the numbers are 1021 and 1022.

    However, if one is looking at the latest version of the Senate bill, the text in those sections is the same.

    Senate bill: Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

    House bill: Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    1031 and 1032 are the Senate numbering scheme (S 1867).

    In the House version (HR 1540), which is what was actually passed into law, the numbers are 1021 and 1022.

    However, if one is looking at the latest version of the Senate bill, the text in those sections is the same.

    Senate bill: Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

    House bill: Bill Text - 112th Congress (2011-2012) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
    Thanks. I looked at the enrolled version, which should be the final version, but I don't know why it was so different.
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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    So do all of the current Democratic Presidents.
    do tell us, how many Democratic Presidents we currently have?

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Time to end this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Definitely. To finally close this argument about whether the bill allows for the indefinite detention of US citizens, Obama stated when he signed the bill that his "Administration will not authorize the indefinite military detention without trial of American citizens." Thus, he does acknowledge that the bill allows for the indefinite detention of US citizens.
    Either way, the President can still indefinitely detain US citizens under the Patriot Act and the 2006 Military Commissions Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Actually, that's not true at all. Here's the thing, this bill does not grant the President any new powers, rather, it solidifies and codifies old ones into law. Under the Patriot Act people were detained indefinitely (Imprisoned by the Patriot Act -- In These Times) (GrepLaw | Photographer Arrested "Under Patriot Act") and the 2006 Military Commissions Act gives the President the power to label protesters unlawful enemy combatants (JURIST - Hotline: Challenging the Military Commissions Act). The definition of unlawful enemy combatants is so vague to the point where it can include US citizens.
    Thus, at the end of the day the President can, in fact, detain US citizens indefinitely.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    ...Either way, the President can still indefinitely detain US citizens under the Patriot Act and the 2006 Military Commissions Act

    ....Thus, at the end of the day the President can, in fact, detain US citizens indefinitely.
    actually no, he cannot.

    that is why NO ONE is currently being detained without charge/trial, be they legal resident of the USA or citizen.

    EVERYBODY at GITMO was arrested outside of the USA.

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    actually no, he cannot.

    that is why NO ONE is currently being detained without charge/trial, be they legal resident of the USA or citizen.

    EVERYBODY at GITMO was arrested outside of the USA.
    Just keep ignoring evidence if it floats your boat.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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