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Thread: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provisions...

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You agreed with the ACLU. Your conservative card, I want it, now.
    He doesn't have one. He AdamT want to make this a Bush thread. Sit back and give it time; it must mature.
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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Please show me that clause as I read the bill and Section 1031 does not exempt US citizens.
    1031 isn't the section on that anymore. I can't find it now anywhere in the final bill. Look for yourself. Make sure you are looking at the final version (enrolled). I'll keep looking.

    EDIT. Found it, in 1032, in the "public print" not the enrolled version (don't know why).

    SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.

    (a) Custody Pending Disposition Under Law of War-

    (1) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in paragraph (4), the Armed Forces of the United States shall hold a person described in paragraph (2) who is captured in the course of hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) in military custody pending disposition under the law of war.

    (2) COVERED PERSONS- The requirement in paragraph (1) shall apply to any person whose detention is authorized under section 1031 who is determined--

    (A) to be a member of, or part of, al-Qaeda or an associated force that acts in coordination with or pursuant to the direction of al-Qaeda; and

    (B) to have participated in the course of planning or carrying out an attack or attempted attack against the United States or its coalition partners.

    (3) DISPOSITION UNDER LAW OF WAR- For purposes of this subsection, the disposition of a person under the law of war has the meaning given in section 1031(c), except that no transfer otherwise described in paragraph (4) of that section shall be made unless consistent with the requirements of section 1033.

    (4) WAIVER FOR NATIONAL SECURITY- The Secretary of Defense may, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, waive the requirement of paragraph (1) if the Secretary submits to Congress a certification in writing that such a waiver is in the national security interests of the United States.

    (b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-

    (1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

    (2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.


    (c) Implementation Procedures-

    (1) IN GENERAL- Not later than 60 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the President shall issue, and submit to Congress, procedures for implementing this section.

    (2) ELEMENTS- The procedures for implementing this section shall include, but not be limited to, procedures as follows:

    (A) Procedures designating the persons authorized to make determinations under subsection (a)(2) and the process by which such determinations are to be made.

    (B) Procedures providing that the requirement for military custody under subsection (a)(1) does not require the interruption of ongoing surveillance or intelligence gathering with regard to persons not already in the custody or control of the United States.

    (C) Procedures providing that a determination under subsection (a)(2) is not required to be implemented until after the conclusion of an interrogation session which is ongoing at the time the determination is made and does not require the interruption of any such ongoing session.

    (D) Procedures providing that the requirement for military custody under subsection (a)(1) does not apply when intelligence, law enforcement, or other government officials of the United States are granted access to an individual who remains in the custody of a third country.

    (E) Procedures providing that a certification of national security interests under subsection (a)(4) may be granted for the purpose of transferring a covered person from a third country if such a transfer is in the interest of the United States and could not otherwise be accomplished.

    (d) Effective Date- This section shall take effect on the date that is 60 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, and shall apply with respect to persons described in subsection (a)(2) who are taken into the custody or brought under the control of the United States on or after that effective date.
    And reading this, it appears to resolve the "requirement" thing too - the military is "required" to hold someone in custody, unless and until they are transferred to civilian court or released, and that's why it says "this requirement."
    Last edited by misterman; 01-04-12 at 10:26 PM.
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  3. #113
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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    The worst thing Obama has done. He should have vetoed this, might lose my vote.
    I agree with you, except he never actually had my vote. I voted for a write-in in 2008. I might have voted for Obama this time, if the GOP candidate was as piss-poor as BushLite and Bubblebrain was in 2008. But this kind of crap scares the hell out of me. If he had a pair of balls, an ounce of integrity, and any real concern about the citizens of this country, he'd have vetoed this totalitarian turd.

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I agree with you, except he never actually had my vote. I voted for a write-in in 2008. I might have voted for Obama this time, if the GOP candidate was as piss-poor as BushLite and Bubblebrain was in 2008. But this kind of crap scares the hell out of me. If he had a pair of balls, an ounce of integrity, and any real concern about the citizens of this country, he'd have vetoed this totalitarian turd.
    I believe it was a political vote, he didn't want to veto it because then the republicans would be able to drive home the message that he doesn't care about national defense and all that crap, but when it comes to something like this, anyone with integrity would be willing to sacrifice the next election and not let this unconstitutional crap become law. Just another sign of how disappointing he has been, I voted for a liberal, not Bush-Lite.
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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I believe it was a political vote, he didn't want to veto it because then the republicans would be able to drive home the message that he doesn't care about national defense and all that crap, but when it comes to something like this, anyone with integrity would be willing to sacrifice the next election and not let this unconstitutional crap become law. Just another sign of how disappointing he has been, I voted for a liberal, not Bush-Lite.
    I agree, and I think we should keep pressure on Obama about this, as well as the GOP candidates who also have supported this violation of the Constitution.
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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    these protest areas are for security purposes. in places like NYC, you need a balance between freedom & safety.

    sorry if folks don't like it, but we in NYC think it makes sense.
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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Mr. Franklin would say that you deserve neither.
    That's okay. Sure there's plenty of people happy to say he doesn't have either.

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I believe it was a political vote, he didn't want to veto it because then the republicans would be able to drive home the message that he doesn't care about national defense and all that crap, but when it comes to something like this, anyone with integrity would be willing to sacrifice the next election and not let this unconstitutional crap become law. Just another sign of how disappointing he has been, I voted for a liberal, not Bush-Lite.
    With all of the backlash this has caused, I can't see how ANYONE, Obama especially, could have considered a veto political suicide. All he'd have to say is "I refuse to pass a bill that includes the indefinite detention of blah blah blah," and he could have turned it into a massive stake to the Conservative heart. If anyone could have and would have used this as a political tool, it would have been Obama.

    But, instead, he signed it. That should tell us something. Sadly, though, so far I've seen widespread condemnation of conservatives for this bill... even though it had bipartisan support.... and was signed by the President...
    Last edited by Gonzo Rodeo; 01-05-12 at 03:49 AM.

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I believe it was a political vote, he didn't want to veto it because then the republicans would be able to drive home the message that he doesn't care about national defense and all that crap, but when it comes to something like this, anyone with integrity would be willing to sacrifice the next election and not let this unconstitutional crap become law. Just another sign of how disappointing he has been, I voted for a liberal, not Bush-Lite.
    Then the solution isn't to sign it.

    Rather, the solution is to ask conservative voters why their own Republican Senators and Representatives favor overreaching government powers, especially when it comes to using the military for law enforcement and granting it arrest powers.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: ACLU, Others Slam Obama for Signing Defense Bill That Includes Detainee Provision

    Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said. "They should not be read their Miranda Rights. They should not be given a lawyer,". "They should be held humanely in military custody and interrogated about why they joined al Qaeda and what they were going to do to all of us."

    If McCain is Bushlite then this guy is BushOnTap. I'm surprised the American people don't hold all the congressional members and ask them "what were you going to do to us"?
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