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Thread: Fisker Recalling 239 Karma Plug-In Hybrids for Fire Hazard

  1. #101
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    Re: Fisker Recalling 239 Karma Plug-In Hybrids for Fire Hazard

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Of course scientists have been wrong.
    Ok, STOP THERE...The debate is NOT settled on this.

    But they still represent by far the best, most informed opinion on the subject.
    That's your opinion. I prefer to look at more than the UN for settling this issue.

    Okay, here goes.

    A simple link to the UN IPCC would suffice. However, the real argument in this thread anyway, is how these new technologies are being subsidized, some in the case of auto's to the tune of $250,000 per car, and they are still catching fire, and being recalled, yet we are told we MUST shift to them....I have the right to spend my money, at least for the moment, on any damned car, or as I prefer truck I want. I don't like being told what to do, by anyone, especially libs.

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  2. #102
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    Re: Fisker Recalling 239 Karma Plug-In Hybrids for Fire Hazard

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, STOP THERE...The debate is NOT settled on this.
    Science is never settled. Nevertheless we operate on the assumption that the earth is round, matter is composed of subatomic particles, etc. At a certain point the debate becomes sufficiently settled to justify action, and we are well past that point with AGW.

    That's your opinion. I prefer to look at more than the UN for settling this issue.
    Thus the pages and pages of additional sources I cited for you. Presumably you find Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh more authoritative than the National Academy of Sciences.

    However, the real argument in this thread anyway, is how these new technologies are being subsidized, some in the case of auto's to the tune of $250,000 per car, and they are still catching fire, and being recalled, yet we are told we MUST shift to them....I have the right to spend my money, at least for the moment, on any damned car, or as I prefer truck I want. I don't like being told what to do, by anyone, especially libs.
    I'd like to see the source for your numbers and no one is being told they "must" switch to hybrids. As mentioned ad nauseum, the Fisker recall has nothing to do with hybrid technology. It was about a misplaced hose clamp.

    j-mac[/QUOTE]

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    Re: Fisker Recalling 239 Karma Plug-In Hybrids for Fire Hazard

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnukingfutz View Post
    Solar is not a proven, reliable energy source. Its inefficiency and high cost makes us rely on other energy sources to produce power when the sun is not out supplying energy.
    The biggest problems with solar energy aren't the reliability of the sun or the high start-up cost.

    The single biggest problem with solar energy is the collecting and processing of the energy. Most of the electronics available out there are just about incapable of efficiently converting the energy from the panel into something that can be dumped into a battery. Most of the electronics available out there suck at pulling that energy out of the panel as efficiently as possible. Those problems account for huge energy losses.

    Add to this the fact that all to often the wrong panels are used. Either the peak voltage of the panel isn't high enough, or its quality is such that the peak voltage isn't high enough in most real-world environmental conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnukingfutz View Post
    Wind is not a proven, reliable energy source. The wind doesnt always blow to generate power and power storage capabilities are lack luster at best on both.

    Now both ARE viable assistants to providing power (in addition to what we currently have and use) but neither can provide enough power to supply the worlds demand.

    I like solar energy...as a back up / assistant to the customary power generating facilities but it is too far from being a solo energy source.
    The problem is that too few people are thinking outside the box.

    Unless you're talking about locations where the sun pounds down on you day after day or the wind buffets you constantly (and there are plenty such locations), these power sources should never be considered as grid-quality replacements. They are, however, good in micro-power applications.

    For example, I've wondered why the hell I've never seen anybody use either as a power source for a water electrolysis process. There are web sites all over the damn place teaching about brown gas -- make some, process it safely (using your alternative energy), and then you've got yourself a supply of hydrogen for a fuel cell. Now, instead of trying to dump the energy into ever-aging battery packs, you're converting it into a source that you can tap whenever you need a steady flow of electrons.

    Maybe I blinked and missed it, but I doubt it.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  4. #104
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    Re: Fisker Recalling 239 Karma Plug-In Hybrids for Fire Hazard

    Poor investment, perhaps. Does it convince me to vote for the party that thought the Iraq War and the Bush tax cuts were good investments? No.

    I wish we had an alternative I could take seriously.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Science is never settled. Nevertheless we operate on the assumption that the earth is round, matter is composed of subatomic particles, etc. At a certain point the debate becomes sufficiently settled to justify action, and we are well past that point with AGW.



    Thus the pages and pages of additional sources I cited for you. Presumably you find Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh more authoritative than the National Academy of Sciences.



    I'd like to see the source for your numbers and no one is being told they "must" switch to hybrids. As mentioned ad nauseum, the Fisker recall has nothing to do with hybrid technology. It was about a misplaced hose clamp.

    If I had time and when I do I'll post some dissenting opinions for you, that no doubt you will dismiss out of hand with closed mind. See that's how religious fanatics operate.


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    Re: Fisker Recalling 239 Karma Plug-In Hybrids for Fire Hazard

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    ...that no doubt you will dismiss out of hand with closed mind. See that's how religious fanatics operate.
    Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
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    Re: Fisker Recalling 239 Karma Plug-In Hybrids for Fire Hazard

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    If I had time and when I do I'll post some dissenting opinions for you, that no doubt you will dismiss out of hand with closed mind. See that's how religious fanatics operate.


    J-mac


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    Chances are I've already seen them. It's a pretty small club.

  8. #108
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    Re: Fisker Recalling 239 Karma Plug-In Hybrids for Fire Hazard

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Chances are I've already seen them. It's a pretty small club.

    Small club?

    32,000 American scientists, including over 9,000 Ph.D’s, have now signed the “Oregon Petition” rejecting Kyoto and other similar measures, and the premise of “global warming” itself. The petition reads:

    “We urge the United States government to reject the global warming agreement that was written in Kyoto, Japan in December, 1997, and any other similar proposals. The proposed limits on greenhouse gases would harm the environment, hinder the advance of science and technology, and damage the health and welfare of mankind.

    There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth.”

    32,000 Scientists Dissent From Global Warming “Consensus” American Elephants
    32,000 is now a small club eh? Just keep placing fingers in ears, and yelling la, la, la..til you turn blue...Doesn't make your opinion correct.


    j-mac
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  9. #109
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    Re: Fisker Recalling 239 Karma Plug-In Hybrids for Fire Hazard

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Small club?



    32,000 is now a small club eh? Just keep placing fingers in ears, and yelling la, la, la..til you turn blue...Doesn't make your opinion correct.


    j-mac
    Ah yes, the infamous "Oregon Petition." Here's some interesting points about that:

    Kevin Grandia: The 30,000 Global Warming Petition Is Easily-Debunked Propaganda
    The petition was so misleading that the National Academy issued a news release stating: "The petition project was a deliberate attempt to mislead scientists and to rally them in an attempt to undermine support for the Kyoto Protocol. The petition was not based on a review of the science of global climate change, nor were its signers experts in the field of climate science."
    Oregon Petition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    A number of critics of the petition questioned the scientific credentials and the authenticity of the names of the signatories.

    In May 1998 the Seattle Times wrote:
    “ Several environmental groups questioned some of the names in the petition. For instance: "Perry S. Mason", who was a legitimate scientist who shared the name of a TV character. Similarly, "Michael J. Fox", "Robert C. Byrd", and "John C. Grisham" were signatories with names shared with famous people. Geraldine Halliwell was added as: "Dr. Geri Halliwell" and "Dr. Halliwell." This name may have been contributed by a proxy trying to discredit the petition since Ms. Halliwell has never admitted to signing the petition.

    Asked about the pop singer, Robinson said he was duped. The returned petition, one of thousands of mailings he sent out, identified her as having a degree in microbiology and living in Boston. "When we're getting thousands of signatures there's no way of filtering out a fake", he said.[21]



    In 2001, Scientific American reported:
    “ Scientific American took a random sample of 30 of the 1,400 signatories claiming to hold a Ph.D. in a climate-related science. Of the 26 we were able to identify in various databases, 11 said they still agreed with the petition —- one was an active climate researcher, two others had relevant expertise, and eight signed based on an informal evaluation. Six said they would not sign the petition today, three did not remember any such petition, one had died, and five did not answer repeated messages. Crudely extrapolating, the petition supporters include a core of about 200 climate researchers – a respectable number, though rather a small fraction of the climatological community.[22] ”


    In a 2005 op-ed in the Hawaii Reporter, Todd Shelly wrote:
    “ In less than 10 minutes of casual scanning, I found duplicate names (Did two Joe R. Eaglemans and two David Tompkins sign the petition, or were some individuals counted twice?), single names without even an initial (Biolchini), corporate names (Graybeal & Sayre, Inc. How does a business sign a petition?), and an apparently phony single name (Redwine, Ph.D.). These examples underscore a major weakness of the list: there is no way to check the authenticity of the names. Names are given, but no identifying information (e.g., institutional affiliation) is provided. Why the lack of transparency?[23] ”


    To the issue of duplicate names, the Global Warming Petition Project had responded:
    “ Thousands of scientists have signed the petition more than once. These duplicates have been carefully removed from the petition list. The list contains many instances of scientists with closely similar and sometimes identical names, as is statistically expected in a list of this size, but these signers are different people, who live at different addresses, and usually have different fields of specialization. Primarily as a result of name and address variants, occasional duplicate names are found in the list. These are immediately removed.[24]
    It wouldn't surprise me if Dr. Paris Hilton signed this thing as well.
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  10. #110
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    Re: Fisker Recalling 239 Karma Plug-In Hybrids for Fire Hazard

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Ah yes, the infamous "Oregon Petition." Here's some interesting points about that:

    Kevin Grandia: The 30,000 Global Warming Petition Is Easily-Debunked Propaganda


    Oregon Petition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    It wouldn't surprise me if Dr. Paris Hilton signed this thing as well.
    So let me get this straight. Any scientists against AGW that speak out are subject to intense ridicule, scrutiny, and discrediting of their academic standing to speak to the standards of determination of AGW, but those in favor of the theory that used false data, fudged results, and email trails between scientist skewing information should be taken at face value no matter what.

    Like I said before, Alinsky would be proud.

    From what I can tell from your post you have given nothing but attacks of individuals that spoke out against AGW.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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