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Thread: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

  1. #61
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    It doesn't have to because it authorizes the arrest and indefinite detention of a much broader group into which American citizens could be easily fit while failing to explicitly exclude the arrest and indefinite detention of American citizens. [...]
    By all means, show me where it explicitly states that the Executive does have the power to detain American citizens on American soil indefinitely without trial.

    Otherwise you'll have to show some other law that allows "the arrest and indefinite detention of American citizens", since this law explicitly does not "affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens".

    If this law did change "existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens" then it could not say that it does not.

    So, in what prior law does the Executive does have the power to detain American citizens on American soil indefinitely without trial?

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    By all means, show me where it explicitly states that the Executive does have the power to detain American citizens on American soil indefinitely without trial.
    Oh, I get it -- so you can't address any of the points I've made multiple times now, so you move the goal-posts.

    Have fun with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    If this law did change "existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens" then it could not say that it does not.
    Except of course that once this became law, it became part of that "existing law or authorities." You're talking about the same government that has figured out how to re-interpret "knowingly" breaking the law to include a conscious act that someone "knowingly" took which happened to break the law.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  3. #63
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    By all means, show me where it explicitly states that the Executive does have the power to detain American citizens on American soil indefinitely without trial. [...]
    Oh, I get it -- so you can't address any of the points I've made multiple times now, so you move the goal-posts. Have fun with that. [...]
    Actually, the goal-posts are yours:

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan, in post #11 View Post
    By all means, show me where it explicitly states that the Executive does not have the power to detain American citizens on American soil indefinitely without trial. [...]
    Having fun yet?

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Actually, the goal-posts are yours:


    Having fun yet?
    Right, and since you have utterly failed on the "does not," you want me to go after the "does." That's moving the goal-posts.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    [...] If this law did change "existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens" then it could not say that it does not. [...]
    [...] Except of course that once this became law, it became part of that "existing law or authorities." You're talking about the same government that has figured out how to re-interpret "knowingly" breaking the law to include a conscious act that someone "knowingly" took which happened to break the law.
    Circular arguments like this, well-sprinkled with conspiracy theory as it is, are what beget the winking whispers and sidelong glances amongst those who prefer to utilize logic and fact in their argument.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Right, and since you have utterly failed on the "does not," you want me to go after the "does." That's moving the goal-posts.
    No, it's called hoisting you on your own petard; alternatively, sauce for the goose

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Circular arguments like this, well-sprinkled with conspiracy theory as it is, are what beget the winking whispers and sidelong glances amongst those who prefer to utilize logic and fact in their argument.
    That's not a circular argument. That's a well-informed argument born of a lot of reading, study and consideration over a number of years. The fact that you are ill-informed and thus prone to wink and whisper doesn't say anything about me, and a lot about you.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    No, it's called hoisting you on your own petard; alternatively, sauce for the goose
    Which would be true only if you'd shown the language I requested, and then made your request. You didn't. You're trying to change the subject. It won't work.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  9. #69
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Except of course that once this became law, it became part of that "existing law or authorities." [...]
    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    That's not a circular argument. [...]
    I would suggest a 2nd opinion.
    Last edited by Karl; 01-01-12 at 06:49 PM.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Right, and since you have utterly failed on the "does not," you want me to go after the "does." That's moving the goal-posts.
    No, it's called hoisting you on your own petard; alternatively, sauce for the goose
    Which would be true only if you'd shown the language I requested, and then made your request. You didn't. You're trying to change the subject. It won't work.
    1. You demand explicit wording from your opponent in order to validate your agrument, and claim that they fail by not providing it.

    2. Your opponent demands explicit wording from you in order to validate your argument, and you claim they are changing the subject (or moving the goal-posts).

    Again, I would suggest a 2nd opinion.
    Last edited by Karl; 01-01-12 at 06:55 PM.

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