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Thread: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Thunder, you were half right... it is #1 and #2
    I think it's telling that the best you guys can do is quote passages that don't address the actual questions asked, insist they do when it is clearly illustrated that they don't, and write your challengers off as nutjobs. Apparently you're all out of material, and that's a shame.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    [...] Nothing in the law explicitly states that the Executive is not empowered to arrest American citizens on American soil and hold them indefinitely without charges.
    Conversely, nothing in the law explicitly states that the Executive is empowered to arrest American citizens on American soil and hold them indefinitely without charges.

    So, your argument fails (at least with respect to the NDAA).
    Last edited by Karl; 01-01-12 at 05:33 PM.

  3. #53
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I think it's telling that the best you guys can do is quote passages that don't address the actual questions asked, insist they do when it is clearly illustrated that they don't, and write your challengers off as nutjobs. Apparently you're all out of material, and that's a shame.
    You have failed to acknowledge the possibility that our challengers are nutjobs.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    You have failed to acknowledge the possibility that our challengers are nutjobs.
    You have failed to provide even anecdotal evidence that we are.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  5. #55
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    and yet, he repealed DADT and refuses to enforce the DOMA.

    ironic huh?
    In the face of warrantless wiretaps, not closing Guantanamo, and indefinite detention, I would argue that these are symbolic table scraps.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Conversely, nothing in the law explicitly states that the Executive is empowered to arrest American citizens on American soil and hold them indefinitely without charges.

    So, your argument fails (at least with respect to the NDAA).
    It authorizes arrest and indefinite detention for individuals who meet any of a list of criteria, some of which are very vaguely worded. American citizens could very easily fit into a number of these criteria, and all it takes is an accusation and an arrest order. They didn't explicitly empower the executive to go after American citizens because they authorized the executive to go after a very broadly defined population.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    In the face of warrantless wiretaps, not closing Guantanamo, and indefinite detention, I would argue that these are symbolic table scraps.
    Congress, as well as the American populace, would not let him close Gitmo. I give him an E for effort on that one.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    It authorizes arrest and indefinite detention for individuals who meet any of a list of criteria, some of which are very vaguely worded. American citizens could very easily fit into a number of these criteria, and all it takes is an accusation and an arrest order. They didn't explicitly empower the executive to go after American citizens because they authorized the executive to go after a very broadly defined population.
    Nothing in the law (NDAA) explicitly states that the Executive is empowered to arrest American citizens on American soil and hold them indefinitely without charges.

    Taste better 2nd time around?

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    I think that this needs to be put into greater context. We have seen the rise of legislation and actions that have curbed our civil liberties in the name of the War on Terror ever since 9/11. First it was the Patriot Act, then the 2006 Military Commissions Act, then the establishment of "free speech zones," the militarization of the police, finally, we had the viscous attacks on Occupy chapters nationwide where people's First Amendment rights were ignored and trampled upon. We are seeing the rollback of the freedoms we once had and the concentration of power in the hands of the Executive Branch. This is extremely dangerous, not only for citizens, but for the democratic experiment we call the United States of America.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Nothing in the law (NDAA) explicitly states that the Executive is empowered to arrest American citizens on American soil and hold them indefinitely without charges.

    Taste better 2nd time around?
    It doesn't have to because it authorizes the arrest and indefinite detention of a much broader group into which American citizens could be easily fit while failing to explicitly exclude the arrest and indefinite detention of American citizens.

    Taste better the Nth time around?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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