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Thread: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Congratulations, you succeeded in quoting one of the passages I cited in post #7 when I complained that neither the bill nor its proponents specifically enjoined the Executive from detaining American citizens on American soil indefinitely.....
    ah, so you want us to prove a negative?

    no thanks, I don't play such silly games.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    please link to & quote the law that gives Obama the power to declare peaceful & even violent protesters, enemy combatants.

    thanks.
    You should read the links already provided by Mr. Invisible. They satisfy your request.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    ah, so you want us to prove a negative?

    no thanks, I don't play such silly games.
    Um, no. You totally missed the point. Or you're playing such silly games, whichever.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    please link to & quote the law that gives Obama the power to declare peaceful & even violent protesters, enemy combatants.

    thanks.
    Sure. Here is the law (http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_L...PL-109-366.pdf) and here is the quote

    948a. Definitions
    ‘‘In this chapter:
    ‘‘(1) UNLAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANT.—(A) The term ‘unlawful
    enemy combatant’ means—
    ‘‘(i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant
    This view that the 2006 Military Commissions Act allows the President to declare almost anyone an enemy combatant (due to the broad definition of enemy combatant) is highly supported (JURIST - Hotline: Challenging the Military Commissions Act) (FindLaw's Writ - Mariner: The Military Commissions Act of 2006 A Short Primer)
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    alright, well let us know when Obama starts indefinitely detaining American citizens or legal aliens on American soil, without charge or trial.
    The real problem with that is we will not know. There is no requirement that the public will be informed. People can be disappeared. They could end up in one of the FEMA camps already set up and running.










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    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Thank you, Mr. Invisible. That answers the question of why American citizens on American soil weren't specifically excluded in the NDAA.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    The real problem with that is we will not know. There is no requirement that the public will be informed. People can be disappeared. They could end up in one of the FEMA camps already set up and running.
    Yep. All you need are enforcement officers with no oversight who are certain they are obeying lawful orders.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Thank you, Mr. Invisible. That answers the question of why American citizens on American soil weren't specifically excluded in the NDAA.
    You are quite correct that on this issue, Obama is talking out of both sides of his mouth (Obama Crowned Himself on New Year's Eve)
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder, replying to Karl View Post
    two possible things are going on here:

    1. they want the law to specifically name President Obama, the FBI, the CIA, the DOD, the NSA, etc etc..and specifically says that they have no authority to arrest & indefinitely detain any legal resident of the USA without charge or trial. Such a request is kinda silly.

    2. they are conspiracy theorists, and believe that regardless of what the law says or how it is amended, Obama and the DOD or whomever else will use it or abuse it to detain indefinitely anyone in the USA, without charge or trial. This goes for suspected terrorists, Teabaggers, OWSers, or anyone else that has a view that slightly oppose the govt.

    personally, I believe most of what we are seeing here is #2, and you can't argue with such paranoia.
    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan, replying to Thunder View Post
    Congratulations, you succeeded in quoting one of the passages I cited in post #7 when I complained that neither the bill nor its proponents specifically enjoined the Executive from detaining American citizens on American soil indefinitely.

    To begin with, a passage like that is meaningless because once the bill is passed it becomes part of the existing law or authority on the subject. Additionally, it would still mean nothing if the bill explicitly stated that nothing in it is to be construed as contradicting the Constitution (and this bill makes no such explicit statement, btw), because that is a determination ultimately made in a court of law after this abomination gets challenged in court.

    Nothing in the law explicitly states that the Executive is not empowered to arrest American citizens on American soil and hold them indefinitely without charges.
    Thunder, you were half right... it is #1 and #2

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Yep. All you need are enforcement officers with no oversight who are certain they are obeying lawful orders.
    Indeed, when I was in the USAF Security (MP) we would get a "pick up order" to arrest. Sometimes we didn't know why and sometimes we would. If it is a lawful order from your chain of command you do as you are ordered. I don't remember but I'm sure at times we might have asked about a particular guy and the flight sergeant or the desk sergeant would have to told us what they knew or they would have said, "that's all we have" or "What? You want a biography and ****ing map?" If it is a lawful order, you just do it. That'll happen under the new law.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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