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Thread: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    "Tens of trillions" may be just a slight exaggeration, but, yes, Medicare will have to be reformed, or the costs will be too much to pay. Further, Medicare is a part of our health care system, all of which has to be reformed before the costs eat us alive.

    Check the unfunded liability...Agreed but this isn't the way.


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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The sad thing is any effort at real reform can't get beyond the partisan bickering and ideaological silliness to actually get to problem solving. Such has always derailed reform.
    You have no idea what you are talking about.


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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Originally Posted by Neomalthusian
    It would have to be their own savings.
    Now, that's just so far out of touch as to be downright funny.
    But that's the answer to the question, "who is going to provide insurance to the most expensive demographic?" if there were no Medicare. Their own savings, or no one.

    Keep in mind, the way it's set up, Medicare is not insurance. It's welfare for the elderly on the backs of their children and grandchildren. The 20s-50s are struggling to afford their own healthcare in our cost-expansionary system, and the idea that they'll be able to also fund the needs of the boomers as they get old and start dying... THAT'S what's out of touch. We all know it can't be done. So what? Just turn the benefits off? Uh, yeah! And then what pays for all the elderly's care? They do, or no one does. Where else would the money come from?

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You have no idea what you are talking about.


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    You're welcome to contribute more than this silliness, if you have more.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    But that's the answer to the question, "who is going to provide insurance to the most expensive demographic?" if there were no Medicare. Their own savings, or no one.

    Keep in mind, the way it's set up, Medicare is not insurance. It's welfare for the elderly on the backs of their children and grandchildren. The 20s-50s are struggling to afford their own healthcare in our cost-expansionary system, and the idea that they'll be able to also fund the needs of the boomers as they get old and start dying... THAT'S what's out of touch. We all know it can't be done. So what? Just turn the benefits off? Uh, yeah! And then what pays for all the elderly's care? They do, or no one does. Where else would the money come from?
    Medicare is not insurance, but a way of paying for some people's health care collectively.

    The way to reform it is to place everyone under the Medicare umbrella, or better, give them the option of being there.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    I would argue that Medicare is, indeed, effectively insurance. That you may technically be paying the premium for a retired person, when you retire someone will be paying your premium, so the end result is the same. Unless, when you retire the benefits are turned off (see Mr. Ryan's plan).

    Furthermore, when one retires and dies suddenly, there is no Medicare premium refund (like insurance, that premium is absorbed into the overall fund). Or if they simply live a long life with little need for medical attention, there is again no rebate of premium (even though they, themselves, continue to pay it monthly). Again, just like insurance.

    The welfare argument is simply class warfare.

    As to unfunded liabilities, that assumes premiums (payroll taxes) and payments remain the same for the next 75 years. As the program becomes progressively unbalanced, that is likely to change long before such alarming numbers are reached (which therefore changes the unfunded liability picture).

    The solution is to not attack the program, but that which it pays for (healthcare system)... for when the government can no longer afford to pay for healthcare, neither will anyone else (something Mr. Ryan's plan conveniently overlooks).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I would argue that Medicare is, indeed, effectively insurance. That you may technically be paying the premium for a retired person, when you retire someone will be paying your premium, so the end result is the same. Unless, when you retire the benefits are turned off (see Mr. Ryan's plan).

    Furthermore, when one retires and dies suddenly, there is no Medicare premium refund (like insurance, that premium is absorbed into the overall fund). Or if they simply live a long life with little need for medical attention, there is again no rebate of premium (even though they, themselves, continue to pay it monthly). Again, just like insurance.

    The welfare argument is simply class warfare.

    As to unfunded liabilities, that assumes premiums (payroll taxes) and payments remain the same for the next 75 years. As the program becomes progressively unbalanced, that is likely to change long before such alarming numbers are reached (which therefore changes the unfunded liability picture).

    The solution is to not attack the program, but that which it pays for (healthcare system)... for when the government can no longer afford to pay for healthcare, neither will anyone else (something Mr. Ryan's plan conveniently overlooks).
    Spending other peoples money is always fun, until you run out of it.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Spending other peoples money is always fun, until you run out of it.

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    Isn't it also my money?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Isn't it also my money?
    Yes, and no one said you spend your own money on foolish things. But, you should have no claim to mine.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yes, and no one said you spend your own money on foolish things. But, you should have no claim to mine.

    J-mac

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    I don't. But it is our tax money, and better it go for something useful than appeasing big business or invading countries. However, regardless, we decide as a people where we spend that money. And either of us can lose that battle.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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