Page 4 of 46 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 459

Thread: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

  1. #31
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The greatest city on Earth
    Last Seen
    08-04-12 @ 04:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    31,089

    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    No, you didn't. You quoted sections dealing with situations where indefinite military detention was required. You in no way quoted anything that explicitly states that the Executive does not have the power to detain American citizens on American soil indefinitely without trial.

    Try again.
    here ya go:

    AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.

  2. #32
    Sage
    Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    12-18-14 @ 09:35 AM
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,561

    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan, replying to another View Post
    By all means, show me where it explicitly states that the Executive does not have the power to detain American citizens on American soil indefinitely without trial. Don't show me the where it talks about excluding American citizens from mandatory military detention indefinitely, that's not what I'm talking about. [...]
    Sec. 1031 (d) Construction- Nothing in this section is intended to limit or expand the authority of the President [...]


    The "authority of the President" does not include "the power to detain American citizens on American soil indefinitely without trial".


    Sec. 1031 (d) [...] or the scope of the Authorization for Use of Military Force.


    The "scope of the Authorization for Use of Military Force" may or may not include "the power to detain American citizens on American soil indefinitely without trial" (one would have to check, but if it does not, the then such power would effectively be 'explicitly' excluded).


    Sec. 1031 (e) Authorities- Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.


    "Existing law or authorities" includes the U.S. Constitution, which prohibits "detain[ing] American citizens on American soil indefinitely without trial".

    If that is insufficiently explicit, then you are applying an unreasonable standard (which is not unusual for so-called 'constitutionalists' {not saying that you are one}).



    Edited to add: It seems that great minds think alike, and on the same timeline no less
    Last edited by Karl; 01-01-12 at 04:43 PM.

  3. #33
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The greatest city on Earth
    Last Seen
    08-04-12 @ 04:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    31,089

    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    ... If that is insufficiently explicit, then you are applying an unreasonable standard (which is not unusual for so-called 'constitutionalists' {not saying that you are one})....
    two possible things are going on here:

    1. they want the law to specifically name President Obama, the FBI, the CIA, the DOD, the NSA, etc etc..and specifically says that they have no authority to arrest & indefinitely detain any legal resident of the USA without charge or trial. Such a request is kinda silly.

    2. they are conspiracy theorists, and believe that regardless of what the law says or how it is amended, Obama and the DOD or whomever else will use it or abuse it to detain indefinitely anyone in the USA, without charge or trial. This goes for suspected terrorists, Teabaggers, OWSers, or anyone else that has a view that slightly oppose the govt.

    personally, I believe most of what we are seeing here is #2, and you can't argue with such paranoia.

  4. #34
    Sidewalk Inspector
    Utility Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    US
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,100

    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens



    Maybe if this new law specifically rounded up only Muslims or people from the middle east it would be ok.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    There were, by most estimates, 500 Nazis in Charlottesville. One of them went homicidal. Not all Nazis are violent extremists. You are trying to rationalize your hatred and it's simply not rational.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    as I noted, its better that 10 nutjobs get guns than one good person be wrongly disarmed.

  5. #35
    A Man Without A Country
    Mr. Invisible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,961
    Blog Entries
    71

    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    here ya go:

    AUTHORITIES.Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.
    But what are those existing laws? The Patriot Act is still in force as it was extended just last year (Obama Signs Last-Minute Patriot Act Extension | Fox News) and the 2006 Military Commisions Act, which allows for the President to declare protesters unlawful enemy combatants (Rounding Up U.S. Citizens Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names) and lock them up indefinitely.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  6. #36
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The greatest city on Earth
    Last Seen
    08-04-12 @ 04:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    31,089

    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    But what are those existing laws? The Patriot Act is still in force as it was extended just last year (Obama Signs Last-Minute Patriot Act Extension | Fox News) and the 2006 Military Commisions Act, which allows for the President to declare protesters unlawful enemy combatants....
    no, the President does not have the authority to declare peaceful protesters, even violent protesters, enemy combatants.

    please save such hyperbole & fear-mongering for the CT section.

  7. #37
    A Man Without A Country
    Mr. Invisible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,961
    Blog Entries
    71

    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    no, the President does not have the authority to declare peaceful protesters, even violent protesters, enemy combatants.

    please save such hyperbole & fear-mongering for the CT section.
    Actually he does and I provided evidence.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  8. #38
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The greatest city on Earth
    Last Seen
    08-04-12 @ 04:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    31,089

    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Actually he does and I provided evidence.
    please link to & quote the law that gives Obama the power to declare peaceful & even violent protesters, enemy combatants.

    thanks.

  9. #39
    Shankmasta Killa
    TacticalEvilDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NY and Geneva, CH
    Last Seen
    08-30-15 @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,444

    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    here ya go:

    AUTHORITIES.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.
    Congratulations, you succeeded in quoting one of the passages I cited in post #7 when I complained that neither the bill nor its proponents specifically enjoined the Executive from detaining American citizens on American soil indefinitely.

    To begin with, a passage like that is meaningless because once the bill is passed it becomes part of the existing law or authority on the subject. Additionally, it would still mean nothing if the bill explicitly stated that nothing in it is to be construed as contradicting the Constitution (and this bill makes no such explicit statement, btw), because that is a determination ultimately made in a court of law after this abomination gets challenged in court.

    Nothing in the law explicitly states that the Executive is not empowered to arrest American citizens on American soil and hold them indefinitely without charges.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  10. #40
    Shankmasta Killa
    TacticalEvilDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NY and Geneva, CH
    Last Seen
    08-30-15 @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,444

    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    1. they want the law to specifically name President Obama, the FBI, the CIA, the DOD, the NSA, etc etc..and specifically says that they have no authority to arrest & indefinitely detain any legal resident of the USA without charge or trial. Such a request is kinda silly.
    It's good to know that you perceive a request for explicit language protecting the civil liberties of American citizens as kinda silly. It's not as if the government has a history of interpreting the law in whatever way grants it the broadest authority, right? Oh, wait. It does.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

Page 4 of 46 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •