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Thread: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I have no interest in a plan that does not address affordability.
    Do you have interest in the fact that one of our entitlements is on track to bankrupt us? Because that's what my original point was.

    Once again you are wrong, Medicare is run at less overhead than private insurance.
    I never said it was overhead that makes Medicare a fiscal disaster.

    You are welcome to provide evidence to refute it if you wish.
    Evidence to refute your arbitrary conjecture?

    You are wrong again, I am afraid. The majority of Americans have clearly expressed through 19 different polls this year that they support increasing taxes on the wealthy to help reduce the deficit.
    Good god you are hard of understanding anything I'm saying. Who cares what polls say people want? No one will vote to eliminate their own government bennies, and raising tax rates (even though the majority wants to) is not a debt fix either.



    As far as your inflation issue, we are at historic lows.
    So you disregard the risk of inflation at this point in our history?
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 01-05-12 at 06:00 PM.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Do you have interest in the fact that one of our entitlements is on track to bankrupt us? Because that's what my original point was.
    Your point is moot because the underlying problem, unaffordable health care cost is what is bankrupting the American people. Your plan does nothing to address that. Addressing affordability will require us to upgrade our health care system as every other industrial nation has done.


    Good god you are hard of understanding anything I'm saying. Who cares what polls say people want?
    The people are who will make the decision, that's what makes what they want important.

    No one will vote to eliminate their own government bennies,
    No one will vote to increase their hardship in meeting health care costs.

    and raising tax rates (even though the majority wants to) is not a debt fix either.
    Not alone, no one has ever claimed it would. The only time in the last 30 years that we significantly reduced the deficit was when both sides came together to both cut spending and increase taxes.

    So you disregard the risk of inflation at this point in our history?
    I don't disregard it, I keep it in proper perspective, which is currently at historic lows.
    Last edited by Catawba; 01-05-12 at 07:17 PM.
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Or, they know that government managed M/M have less overhead and none of the profit that private insurance adds to the cost, added to the private insurance companies right to deny you coverage if they so choose.
    They don't know that because it doesn't happen - historically it's never happened and it won't happen this time if it ever comes to pass.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    If ANYONE tells you that there is a fund, they are lying to you.
    The fact that SS recipients have never missed a payment says otherwise.
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    They don't know that because it doesn't happen - historically it's never happened and it won't happen this time if it ever comes to pass.
    Thanks for your opinion! However:

    "It is generally agreed that this industry adds 15 to 20 percent to the cost of its premiums to pay for its business overhead and profits, whereas the administrative costs of Medicare are less than 5 percent."
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/10/op...insurance.html

    Unattainable Health Coverage
    Insurance discrimination based on pre-existing conditions makes adequate health insurance unavailable to millions of Americans.

    "In 45 states across the country, insurance companies can discriminate against people based on their pre-existing conditions when they try to purchase health insurance directly from insurance companies in the individual insurance market.4 Insurers can deny them coverage, charge higher premiums, and/or refuse to cover that particular medical condition.

    A recent national survey estimated that 12.6 million non-elderly adults5 – 36 percent of those who tried to purchase health insurance directly from an insurance company in the individual insurance market – were in fact discriminated against because of a pre-existing condition in the previous three years.6

    In another survey, one in 10 people with cancer said they could not obtain health coverage, and six percent said they lost their coverage, because of being diagnosed with the disease.7

    It is still legal in nine states for insurers to reject applicants who are survivors of domestic violence, citing the history of domestic violence as a pre-existing condition.8

    Even when offering coverage, insurers can exclude whole categories of illnesses related to a pre-existing condition. For example, someone with a pre-existing condition of hay fever could have any respiratory system disease – such as bronchitis or pneumonia – excluded from coverage."

    Coverage Denied: How the Current Health Insurance System Leaves Millions Behind
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    You're lucky to be healthy then. With individual policies, the way they make them cheap enough to afford is by simply excluding the sick. So while you might be able to get one, it's not an option for everyone. So stop being so self-centered - and remember that even you will get old and sick and if they could, your private policy would drop you like a rock as soon as you did.
    Those who don't have health insurance and are sick still get treated... and don't pay anything. It's not being self-centered, it's telling the truth. Yes, there are times where someone has been chronically ill and has been denied coverage - it's not right, but again, they don't die in the street, they go to the emergency ro


    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So you simply dismiss the fact that millions have such troubles simply because you haven't?
    I don't dismiss it - In fact I already said they do occur, but it's the exception. IF you've got facts that say it's the majority of the time, or the "rule" post it up, otherwise, skip the word twisting games and overzealous assumptions. It bores me.


    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    That's naive and unwise and self-centered. Oh, and your mom's on Medicare - that's government, in case you didn't notice.it
    Gee... Medicare is run by the Government? DUH! Questions were asked, I answered them by sharing how I deal with it - when you don't like the answers you feel the need to call me "self centered". Awww... pity party for misterman. And your self-righteous faux indignation is so much better? My belief is that people have to start being a little more determined and for the most part they do exactly that.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    My child had a pre-existing condition and couldn't get ANY private policy, at any cost. The law finally required it, but the cost was $900 A MONTH. But hey, since it's not happening to you, it's not happening.
    Selective read much?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham
    While I'm sure they occur, it's my opinion that those occurrences are not the rule, but the exception.
    Glad you got insurance - and yes, it's not right that people are denied for pre-existing conditions and just because you had a hard time, doesn't mean everyone else has to suffer for your issues. Planning, investing not only in health insurance but even disability is a good thing. People do what they have to, to get by - including going to hospitals which treat conditions for much less money because they're funded by charities or the wealthy who want to give back. There are lots of options other than just private health insurance which you probably already know. No I haven't always been healthy, but I've done what I had to in order to get by, get better and stay healthy. It's not luck, it's work and it's planning.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Those who don't have health insurance and are sick still get treated... and don't pay anything.
    They get patched together in an emergency room and then skip out on the bill, leaving the rest of us to pay the tab. What a system, certainly one worthy of a great and wealth country like the USA.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Here's an idea. Instead of requireing health insurance companies to take on people with pre-existing conditions which will drive up costs of health insurance why not add a section to Medicare/Medicaid that deals with them specifically? People can buy into government health insurance. And yes I do mean "buy". Sorry, no free rides.
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Here's an idea. Instead of requireing health insurance companies to take on people with pre-existing conditions which will drive up costs of health insurance why not add a section to Medicare/Medicaid that deals with them specifically? People can buy into government health insurance. And yes I do mean "buy". Sorry, no free rides.
    Why not just let anyone who wants to buy into Medicare?

    Why not allow employers to put their employees on Medicare?

    I'll tell you why we don't: The insurance lobby would never allow it, that's why.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Thanks for your opinion! However:

    "It is generally agreed that this industry adds 15 to 20 percent to the cost of its premiums to pay for its business overhead and profits, whereas the administrative costs of Medicare are less than 5 percent."
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/10/op...insurance.html
    Thanks for that irrelevant bit of information.


    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Unattainable Health Coverage
    Insurance discrimination based on pre-existing conditions makes adequate health insurance unavailable to millions of Americans.

    "In 45 states across the country, insurance companies can discriminate against people based on their pre-existing conditions when they try to purchase health insurance directly from insurance companies in the individual insurance market.4 Insurers can deny them coverage, charge higher premiums, and/or refuse to cover that particular medical condition.
    I would assume Holder and the AG's are gearing up to sue then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    A recent national survey estimated that 12.6 million non-elderly adults5 – 36 percent of those who tried to purchase health insurance directly from an insurance company in the individual insurance market – were in fact discriminated against because of a pre-existing condition in the previous three years.6
    And yet more lawsuits... Holder and the AG's are going to be busy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    In another survey, one in 10 people with cancer said they could not obtain health coverage, and six percent said they lost their coverage, because of being diagnosed with the disease.7
    The exception and not the rule. Thanks for proving my insight correct.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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