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Thread: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

  1. #321
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No you can't.


    I already do.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    You ever shop for individual health insurance?
    Yes I have.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Unless you're very young and healthy, it's really expensive, and until Obamacare, you could be banned from buying it at all if you or a family member had a pre-existing condition.
    The older you get the more expensive insurance gets certainly - and the reason is the older you get the more of a chance you will have a physical ailment. I'm 43 and my private insurance is not that expensive. Then again, I forgo my VA insurance and depending on the coverage you want, it can be either moderate to VERY expensive. I pay about $900 a year on a PPO, which includes preventative eye and dental. My 84 year old mother - she pays $800 a quarter for health insurance (that's over and above the Medicare she gets from the Government), and she has Medicare Plan D - her supplemental health care insurance is expensive but then again she has a few different ailments, one of them serious. While I hear the horror stories about people getting dropped, it's not happened to me or any of my family or extended family - some of which have very serious ailments. While I'm sure they occur, it's my opinion that those occurrences are not the rule, but the exception.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    The government, however (like private employers) can pool thousands of insured people together and get much lower rates.
    The Governments track record of managing ANYTHING other than the military (and even that is suspect economically) is an almost total and abject failure. Their historical record is abysmal. I trust myself more than the government .... I know... crazy huh?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #322
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I trust myself more than the government .... I know... crazy huh?
    The point is that the majority of Americans trust the government more than you or the insurance companies that keep tripling our rates every few years.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #323
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The point is that the majority of Americans trust the government more than you or the insurance companies that keep tripling our rates every few years.
    Then clearly the majority of American's are misguided and misinformed for trusting the government more than themselves. That or they're just lazy ****s.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    It doesn't matter what was passed earlier. The debt was about to run out after any such bill was passed. The Tea Party opposed raising the debt ceiling at that time. And your quote says it all: "largely symbolic measure."
    The article states that as the Senate had no desire to pass a responsible spending bill. It does matter as far as the claims go. The House passed a bill to address the debt issue all without shutting down the government with the Tea Party backing.

    Accusation dismissed.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Then clearly the majority of American's are misguided and misinformed for trusting the government more than themselves. That or they're just lazy ****s.
    Or, they know that government managed M/M have less overhead and none of the profit that private insurance adds to the cost, added to the private insurance companies right to deny you coverage if they so choose.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #326
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post


    I already do.
    You're lucky to be healthy then. With individual policies, the way they make them cheap enough to afford is by simply excluding the sick. So while you might be able to get one, it's not an option for everyone. So stop being so self-centered - and remember that even you will get old and sick and if they could, your private policy would drop you like a rock as soon as you did.

    The older you get the more expensive insurance gets certainly - and the reason is the older you get the more of a chance you will have a physical ailment. I'm 43 and my private insurance is not that expensive. Then again, I forgo my VA insurance and depending on the coverage you want, it can be either moderate to VERY expensive. I pay about $900 a year on a PPO, which includes preventative eye and dental. My 84 year old mother - she pays $800 a quarter for health insurance (that's over and above the Medicare she gets from the Government), and she has Medicare Plan D - her supplemental health care insurance is expensive but then again she has a few different ailments, one of them serious. While I hear the horror stories about people getting dropped, it's not happened to me or any of my family or extended family - some of which have very serious ailments. While I'm sure they occur, it's my opinion that those occurrences are not the rule, but the exception.
    So you simply dismiss the fact that millions have such troubles simply because you haven't? That's naive and unwise and self-centered. Oh, and your mom's on Medicare - that's government, in case you didn't notice.

    My child had a pre-existing condition and couldn't get ANY private policy, at any cost. The law finally required it, but the cost was $900 A MONTH. But hey, since it's not happening to you, it's not happening.
    Last edited by misterman; 01-04-12 at 10:33 PM.
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    The article states that as the Senate had no desire to pass a responsible spending bill. It does matter as far as the claims go. The House passed a bill to address the debt issue all without shutting down the government with the Tea Party backing.

    Accusation dismissed.
    So the Tea Party threatened to tear down the economy, and then changed its mind.

    Doesn't change the fact that the crisis threatened to do severe damage, and it was due to the Tea Party. I'm just as glad as you are that they backed off.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  8. #328
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian
    Therefore I'm not wrong, as every expenditure plays its part to contribute to our debt.
    Just as does every cut in revenue.
    So now you're agreeing with my statement, why did you say it was wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba
    SS has not created a dime of our debt, and crippling M/M does nothing to address the spiraling health care cost over the last 30 years of deregulation.
    The objective of dismantling M/M has nothing to do with "addressing the spiraling care cost over the last 30 years..." The objective is to eliminate the runaway entitlements we have no hope of being able to afford anyway. That would be the point of it all. Eliminating unfunded/unfundable entitlements. What sense does it make to say "well that's not gonna accomplish this other thing over here" when that's not even the point?

    As is plain to the majority of American public, requiring continued sacrifice by the seniors without any sacrifice in the tax cuts to the wealthy is class war.

    ...

    Thankfully, the majority of the country does not agree with your proposal to throw the seniors to the dogs.
    "Sacrifice by seniors?" They were working citizens (in a time of great prosperity) who set themselves up for the grandkids to pay their medical bills later in life so they wouldn't have to. That's Medicare. The least affordable of our entitlement programs. Don't play the violin to me about seniors. The problems they created will leave younger generations with no hope for such a cushy retirement.

    It took 30 years of spending too much, mainly on the military, and taxing the rich too little to create our debt. Consequently, it will take 30 years of the opposite to significantly address our debt.
    What an arbitrary thing to make up. How do you know it won't take 50? Or 200?

    We can address our debt any time we want. But liberals (in both parties) want us to spend spend spend spend spend right now now now now now!!!! Kick the debt can 30 years down the road because that's what YOU arbitrarily decide it will take before we should pay any attention to it.

    Raising the cap does fix it, and more equitably than the redistribution of wealth you and the GOP envision.
    You want to raise the contribution cap and yet you call raising the age of eligibility "wealth redistribution." Most ironic thing I've read in days.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 01-04-12 at 10:50 PM.

  9. #329
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    So now you're agreeing with my statement, why did you say it was wrong?
    My point, as history shows us, the only way we can reduce our deficit is to both cut spending and increase taxes. Neither alone will be sufficient. You seemed to be suggesting before that we could balance the budget by spending cuts alone. If that was not your meaning, I am sorry I misunderstood you.

    The objective of dismantling M/M has nothing to do with "addressing the spiraling care cost over the last 30 years..." The objective is to eliminate the runaway entitlements we have no hope of being able to afford anyway. That would be the point of it all. Eliminating unfunded/unfundable entitlements. What sense does it make to say "well that's not gonna accomplish this other thing over here" when that's not even the point?
    Your plan does not address the affordability problem.

    "Sacrifice by seniors?" They were working citizens (in a time of great prosperity) who set themselves up for the grandkids to pay their medical bills later in life so they wouldn't have to. That's Medicare. The least affordable of our entitlement programs. Don't play the violin to me about seniors. The problems they created will leave younger generations with no hope for such a cushy retirement.
    We'll see how far you get with taking away seniors health care affordability. You do realize that seniors made up the only big demographic in the last presidential election don't you? How are planning to get the seniors to agree with your plan to cut their benefits?



    What an arbitrary thing to make up. How do you know it won't take 50? Or 200?
    Its not made up. Do a little research. We didn't have debt problem relative to GDP until the Reagan Administration in 1981. 2011 minus 1981 is 30 years by my calculations.

    We can address our debt any time we want. But liberals (in both parties) want us to spend spend spend spend spend right now now now now now!!!! Kick the debt can 30 years down the road because that's what YOU arbitrarily decide it will take before we should pay any attention to it.
    The only time in the last 30 years that the deficit has been addressed is when we both cut spending and increased revenues. Our debt is simply too big for spending cuts alone to be the answer.



    You want to raise the contribution cap and yet you call raising the age of eligibility "wealth redistribution." Most ironic thing I've read in days.
    The only reason SS does not have its trust funds is because they were used to fund Bush's military spending so that tax cuts could be provided to the rich. So raising the cap is not wealth redistribution, it is a correction for the wealth redistribution from SS to tax cuts for the rich.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #330
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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The only reason SS does not have its trust funds is because they were used to fund Bush's military spending so that tax cuts could be provided to the rich. So raising the cap is not wealth redistribution, it is a correction for the wealth redistribution from SS to tax cuts for the rich.
    You do know that they have been dipping into SS at least since the Vietnam era right?
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