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Thread: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    It's not a matter of a change in classification stripping you of your rights -- it's the fact that those rights vanish if they can say that they suspect you of certain kinds of behavior.

    Ultimately, as I think I've said before, this law will be used to justify (to agents and law enforcement) the making of arrests, and it won't be until someone manages to get the attention of a judge that the law will even be challenged.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    It's not a matter of a change in classification stripping you of your rights -- it's the fact that those rights vanish if they can say that they suspect you of certain kinds of behavior.

    Ultimately, as I think I've said before, this law will be used to justify (to agents and law enforcement) the making of arrests, and it won't be until someone manages to get the attention of a judge that the law will even be challenged.
    I just asked you to prove that. It says in plain text that the right to detain indefinitely does not apply to citizens, and I am asking you to show that a classification of terrorist overrules that clearly written regulation.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I just asked you to prove that. It says in plain text that the right to detain indefinitely does not apply to citizens, and I am asking you to show that a classification of terrorist overrules that clearly written regulation.
    It doesn't say that at all. It claims that it doesn't modify existing law or the existing authority of the President with respect to American citizens -- but if you look at the law, any time they can fit an American citizen into a number of vaguely described categories (none of which are explicitly labeled "terrorist"), that citizen is hosed. The Secretary of Defense will (in theory) regularly report on how they apply those vaguely described categories, but that's it for the oversight.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    It doesn't say that at all. It claims that it doesn't modify existing law or the existing authority of the President with respect to American citizens -- but if you look at the law, any time they can fit an American citizen into a number of vaguely described categories (none of which are explicitly labeled "terrorist"), that citizen is hosed. The Secretary of Defense will (in theory) regularly report on how they apply those vaguely described categories, but that's it for the oversight.
    Again, I'll ask again:

    The bill clearly spells out that it is not legal to detain any citizen indefinitely. What basis do you have for assuming that labeling a citizen a "terrorist" nulls that regulation? I know you know what I mean.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    There have been several threads about this bill already. I started this one.

    It was my understanding from the discussion and from quotes of the bill that the language exempting US citizens was in, then out, and it was out at the insistence of the president.

    Now, in the final bill, does it specifically exempt US citizens and legal residents, or was that wording taken out?

    It the final bill allows indefinite detention of American citizens without trial on any pretext whatsoever, this has to be challenged, even if it means a march on Washington. It is an outrageous curtailment of basic freedoms.

    and if not one cares, then we might as well pack it in. Our 200 + year experiment in liberty is over.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Again, I'll ask again:

    The bill clearly spells out that it is not legal to detain any citizen indefinitely.
    There's really no point in discussing the rest of your post all over again because it does not say that. The fact that it does not say that is one of my biggest objections to the bill.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Now, in the final bill, does it specifically exempt US citizens and legal residents, or was that wording taken out?
    It does not specifically exempt US citizens. It plays word-games.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    At what point does it say that being declared a "terrorist" voids the citizenship aspect of the bill?
    It doesn't have to. Pre-existing laws like the PATRIOT Act serve as an adjunct to the latest legislation.

    The military should not be involved in domestic U.S affairs. That's what the CIA, FBI, and state/local police are for. The military are for defense of this country from invasion, not for policing our soil.

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    Re: With Reservations, Obama Signs Act to Allow Detention of Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    The Bill does not allow the indefinite detention without trial/charge of any legal residents of the USA. This includes citizens, tourists, and folks with Green Cards & Permanent Residency status.
    Why do liberals think that these people are exempt from American freedom?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    There have been several threads about this bill already. I started this one.

    It was my understanding from the discussion and from quotes of the bill that the language exempting US citizens was in, then out, and it was out at the insistence of the president.

    Now, in the final bill, does it specifically exempt US citizens and legal residents, or was that wording taken out?
    The final bill only says the REQUIREMENT of military detention does not apply to citizens/legal residents. It does not say that citizens are protected from the possibility of indefinite detention without trial.

    The Military Commissions Act '09 defines "unprivileged enemy belligerent" broadly enough to include US citizens but then says persons subject to military commissions include "Any ALIEN unprivileged enemy belligerent" with alien meaning a person who is not a citizen of the US.

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