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2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

They were classical liberals. And they valued life.

Then, I'm a classical liberal. I value life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and don't seek to impose my values on the rest of society by force of law.

The purpose of government is to protect our god given liberty.
 
Then, I'm a classical liberal. I value life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and don't seek to impose my values on the rest of society by force of law.

The purpose of government is to protect our god given liberty.

I hope so.
 
I think that human life is eternal. The human soul has always existed, and will exist after the body dies. Life on Earth begins when the soul enters the body. Just when that happens is unknown, of course, but it doesn't seem plausible that it happens when the zygote is just a microscopic few cells. Logically it happens when the brain begins to function.

Maybe it doesn't even happen until birth, or even later, when the individual develops self awareness.

But, I have no way of knowing whether that is true or not, and neither does anyone else.
Well when I say being I mean a being on our plane of existence. We can differentiate between a being with a corporeal form compounded of matter and form or soul, even if soul might exist beyond the corporeal sphere. But that corporeal being, while it is corporeal, is still that whole compound of form and matter, body and soul. To reduce it to only the soul is a dualism that produces all sorts of problems and makes little sense.
 
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Pro lifers tend to want to impose their values on the rest of society by force of law.

Not all of them do, of course, but that does seem to be a theme: I think abortion is wrong, and you'd better share my values or I'll do my best to impose them on you.

It's not so much pro life as it is anti choice, which is anti freedom.
All this sort of commentary, by both sides is stupid. It all depends if you think a fetus is a person. If you do then killing one is a great infringement of freedom. Repetition of these slogans, by either side though, is not going to help much.
 
Pro lifers tend to want to impose their values on the rest of society by force of law.

Not all of them do, of course, but that does seem to be a theme: I think abortion is wrong, and you'd better share my values or I'll do my best to impose them on you.

It's not so much pro life as it is anti choice, which is anti freedom.

There is a reason that 36 states have laws against late-term abortions. Pretty difficult to argue that an 8.5 month old "fetus" isn't an unborn but viable baby at that point, one who is entitled to life and one whose continued existence is merely a temporary inconvenience for his or her mother. Weeks, I mean.
 
Having an abortion at 36 weeks is really ****ed up.
Hell I'm pro choice.

It's potential for viability is pretty high by that point.
It's repulsive.

Any baby born between 37 and 42 weeks gestational age is considered "full term." 36 weeks is one week before that. 7 days. Just disgusting.
 
It's repulsive.

Any baby born between 37 and 42 weeks gestational age is considered "full term." 36 weeks is one week before that. 7 days. Just disgusting.

If these women were ashamed, these doctors could of delivered the fetuses and dropped them off at the nearest hospital instead.
Late term abortion methods are typically more dangerous than actual delivery or c section.

Nuts I tell yea.
 
As a matter of law, anyone killing an unborn baby in the commission of a crime would be charged with murder involving baby's much younger than this 8.5 month gestated one. These "doctors" should absolutely be charged with murder.

j-mac
 
As a matter of law, anyone killing an unborn baby in the commission of a crime would be charged with murder involving baby's much younger than this 8.5 month gestated one. These "doctors" should absolutely be charged with murder.

j-mac

Indeed so, life should be held up in this country!

I don't believe life begins at conception, I know life begins at conception!
 
Indeed so, life should be held up in this country!

I don't believe life begins at conception, I know life begins at conception!


It is amazing that the same people that hold up science as remarkable, when they discover life in micro-biological form on another planet, which would point to cells, or microbes being discovered, however when it comes to human life, they would dismiss that same standard.

j-mac
 
It is amazing that the same people that hold up science as remarkable, when they discover life in micro-biological form on another planet, which would point to cells, or microbes being discovered, however when it comes to human life, they would dismiss that same standard.

j-mac

Amazing, but very sad to say the least.
 
There is a reason that 36 states have laws against late-term abortions. Pretty difficult to argue that an 8.5 month old "fetus" isn't an unborn but viable baby at that point, one who is entitled to life and one whose continued existence is merely a temporary inconvenience for his or her mother. Weeks, I mean.

There aren't many people who support partial birth abortion. It's absolutely barbaric.
 
I value life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and don't seek to impose my values on the rest of society by force of law.

The purpose of government is to protect our god given liberty.
Those two sentences contradict each other.
 
All this sort of commentary, by both sides is stupid. It all depends if you think a fetus is a person. If you do then killing one is a great infringement of freedom. Repetition of these slogans, by either side though, is not going to help much.

That's exactly why there will never be agreement on the issue of abortion. If a fetus, or even a zygote, is a person, if life really begins at conception, then it follows that there is no difference between early and late term abortion, or between abortion and infanticide.

If a fetus is a person. If life begins at conception, at birth, somewhere in between... there is no proof of anyone's opinion on this issue, whether they say that they "know" their position is correct or not.
 
I've explained my answers already to other posters. If you want the answers they are there. However, I will not be responding to someone who accused me of making arguments that I did not make. I've been down that road too many times.

I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm simply asking you why your arguments don't lead to a certain conclusion. That's simply discussion.
 
How can the government "protect our god given liberty" without doing it "by force of law"?

It can't. But those two are not contradictory.
 
It can't. But those two are not contradictory.
He included "liberty" among his list of values.

Then he said that he didn't "seek to impose my values on the rest of society by force of law". That means that he wants liberty, but doesn't want it imposed on the rest of society by force of law.

Then he said "The purpose of government is to protect our god given liberty.". That means that he wants liberty (one of his values) imposed on the rest of society by force of law.

If you don't see the contradiction, there's something wrong with your reading comprehension.

edit: Anyone who understands the difference between anarchism and libertarianism already knew that he was contradicting himself. Anarchists think that everything should be legal, including taking away the liberty of others. Libertarians believe that it's the government's job to protect our liberty. By doing so, liberty (a value) is imposed by force of law.
 
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Democracy is another value that's imposed on society by force of law.
 
He included "liberty" among his list of values.

Then he said that he didn't "seek to impose my values on the rest of society by force of law". That means that he wants liberty, but doesn't want it imposed on the rest of society by force of law.

Wanting liberty doesn't mean you want anarchy.
 
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