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Thread: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    1. Who said anything thing about beating/poisoning/burning?
    2. I'm not pro-abortion. I'm pro-choice. Calling me pro-abortion is like calling you anti-women.
    3. It actually is about the woman's right since the child is in her body.
    Who said that the woman's right to control her body trumps the child's right to live? It is a fact of nature that a fetus needs to grow within a living woman's womb. That this restricts the choice of the mother and her complete control over her body is tough luck; we all have our choices restricted by external circumstances. This doesn't mean the child must die to restore some dubious notion of the woman's total control over her body.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 01-01-12 at 04:29 AM.
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    What babies? Are you talking about fetuses who are aborted? Because if so, I'm pretty sure that's not how they do it.
    The article is about 3rd trimester abortions - some as late as 36 weeks. Those are viable babies - meaning, they could have been killed inside the womb, partially outside, or fully outside the woman's body. There is no "commonly accepted" practice this late in the term. One method essentially entails crushing the head for easier removal (while the body is mostly already delivered). Another, is to inject potassium chloride (one of 3 drugs administered in death penalty cases - the other 2 are given first because just giving potassium chloride by itself is deemed too painfully inhumane). Although, here's a detailed case involving someone who conducted at least hundreds of procedures basically slitting the throats of the child after birth.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I'm actually not, but whatever you need to believe.
    Yes, you've argued that circumstances in the article only bothered you in relation to the mother's health. At 36 weeks a normal baby can live without the mother, so you believe that a baby, delivered early, can be ethically/morally killed. You're no longer arguing regarding fetus does not equal life. You're arguing that life can be extinguished because the bab's life is somehow owned by the mother. Meaning, a few weeks before it's "due" to almost a year after it's born, it should be able to be killed by the mother. If this is not true, then please distinguish the difference between a premature living baby removed from the womb and a 3 month old after birth. Reaching in and killing it so it comes out dead as opposed to pulling it out and killing it are the same thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Sure, I think the best option is to take it out as I've said several times in this thread. However, the best option should not be the only opinion available. Oh and it is about the woman's right.
    I've never argued that if health concerns are on the table then choices may have to be made. But, nothing in the posted story leads us to believe there were any health concerns. Barring new information, the "other" options you reference don't exist. Kill the baby or don't kill the baby. It's likely that the health problems and injuries sustained by the mother were caused by attempting to kill the child while partially delivered. They could have protected the child's rights and the mother's both by delivering it alive instead of dead.
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Legally speaking, does performing an abortion = killing?
    No, I was just pointing out that your comatose example doesn't support what you said. I can't think of any situation where one group's rights are elevated over another's.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    1. Who said anything thing about beating/poisoning/burning?
    2. I'm not pro-abortion. I'm pro-choice. Calling me pro-abortion is like calling you anti-women.
    3. It actually is about the woman's right since the child is in her body.
    Actually you are pro-abortion. See definition. Being pro-life IE against legalized abortion has nothing to do with hating women or being anti-women.

    Proabortion | Define Proabortion at Dictionary.com
    : favoring the legalization of abortion
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    That's just disgusting.
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    That's just another way of saying the rights of a fetus are being elevated above the rights of an adult. You've just specified the rights. I'll specify them another way - the right of a potential person to exist over the right of an actual person to control their body. No matter how you phrase it - still dumb.
    So, according to your school of thought, someone who has "made it" has more rights than one who hasn't. For instance, a professor has more rights than a student. He made it already, the student is just potential. A manager has more rights than a manager in training. The manager made it, the other guy is just potential. A middle class man has more rights than a poor man. The middle class man made it, the poor man is just potential. What a, excuse my abruptness, stupid way to think.
    I still don't agree with it, but, I can see where pro-choice people get their view on early term abortions. The argument there is when is life conceived and how we don't even know if the fetus is going to make it. However, with late term, I have no idea how anyone could endorse that. It is barbaric. These babies could actually live outside the womb at 21 weeks. It is very rare and would be a huge long shot I know, but, its possible. Anyone that can endorse late term abortion needs their head checked. Maybe they should go see one performed and see how they like it then.
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    So, according to your school of thought, someone who has "made it" has more rights than one who hasn't. For instance, a professor has more rights than a student. He made it already, the student is just potential. A manager has more rights than a manager in training. The manager made it, the other guy is just potential. A middle class man has more rights than a poor man. The middle class man made it, the poor man is just potential. What a, excuse my abruptness, stupid way to think.
    I still don't agree with it, but, I can see where pro-choice people get their view on early term abortions. The argument there is when is life conceived and how we don't even know if the fetus is going to make it. However, with late term, I have no idea how anyone could endorse that. It is barbaric. These babies could actually live outside the womb at 21 weeks. It is very rare and would be a huge long shot I know, but, its possible. Anyone that can endorse late term abortion needs their head checked. Maybe they should go see one performed and see how they like it then.
    I fully agree with you.
    Abortion must end sometime soon, otherwise, we are a gone Country.
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT on Nov 8th, 2012 View Post
    Over the next four years the economy will continue to rebound and we will gradually get deficits under control. The real esate market will rebound, unemployment will fall to 6.5% or below, and GDP growth will stand at 3.5 - 4%. We won't be in any wars. And conservatives will still be whining.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo View Post
    I fully agree with you.
    Abortion must end sometime soon, otherwise, we are a gone Country.
    That's not at all realistic. I don't see abortion ending anytime soon. Abortions have existed throughout the whole of human history, and they're not about to go away. What WILL happen is that this country - more specifically, the states - will go through pendulum swings of more restrictive laws and less restrictive abortion laws.

    The only thing, in my opinion, that will end the abortion debate once and for all is if technology has advanced to the point where the question of unwanted pregnancy is moot (or else perhaps we can keep a zygote alive outside the uterus from the moment of fertilization).
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 01-01-12 at 10:28 AM.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    That's not at all realistic. I don't see abortion ending anytime soon. Abortions have existed throughout the whole of human history, and they're not about to go away. What WILL happen is that this country - more specifically, the states - will go through pendulum swings of more restrictive laws and less restrictive abortion laws.

    The only thing, in my opinion, that will end the abortion debate once and for all is if technology has advanced to the point where the question of unwanted pregnancy is moot (or else perhaps we can keep a zygote alive outside the uterus from the moment of fertilization).
    I mean in this Country, it must end.

    I hope that tech NEVER comes out, because there is a better solution: Don't have Children unless you want Children, aka. Abstinence.
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT on Nov 8th, 2012 View Post
    Over the next four years the economy will continue to rebound and we will gradually get deficits under control. The real esate market will rebound, unemployment will fall to 6.5% or below, and GDP growth will stand at 3.5 - 4%. We won't be in any wars. And conservatives will still be whining.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo View Post
    I mean in this Country, it must end.

    I hope that tech NEVER comes out, because there is a better solution: Don't have Children unless you want Children, aka. Abstinence.
    Sorry, that's simply not a realistic expectation.

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