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Thread: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    While I think they should be charged for malpractice because of the harm they caused to the woman, I don't support and will likely never support it being illegal to perform late-term abortions, so the rest of the case and the law, as far as I'm concerned, is dumb as hell.
    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Because I think it's dumb to ban abortion in general not only because people are just going to end up getting them done by people who don't know what the hell they are doing (as we see in this story) and because the "rights" of a fetus should not be elevated above the rights of an adult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Had these abortions been performed earlier, then there would have been no arrests.

    Malpractice suits, maybe, due to the ruptured uterus, but no arrests.

    and if life begins at conception, what difference does it make whether the abortion was done at week 21, day 21, or hour 21?
    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Yes, late term abortions are fine, but nowhere did I say that they aren't human. You just completely made that up.

    A fetus is human. A woman is human. I believe the rights of the full grown woman are more important than the rights of barely functioning human.
    These statements are not consistent. If this is about the woman's rights, then you'd just take the baby out. There'd be no reason to take the baby out and then strangle it (or beat it to death or poison it or burn it or whatever). Clearly, these statements are designed just to appear consistent with pro-abortion.

    If the baby will live on its own, and you kill it, it should be murder. Or, you should be able to kill children until they are able to provide for themselves. Saying that it was "still inside the womb" is like saying that "it was inside my car, and, afterall, it's MY car". Take the child out, hand him/her to a nurse, leave - why kill it? It's not about woman's rights at that point. That argument might hold water with some earlier in the process, but it's not consistent with typical abortion arguments.
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    These statements are not consistent. If this is about the woman's rights, then you'd just take the baby out. There'd be no reason to take the baby out and then strangle it (or beat it to death or poison it or burn it or whatever). Clearly, these statements are designed just to appear consistent with pro-abortion.

    If the baby will live on its own, and you kill it, it should be murder. Or, you should be able to kill children until they are able to provide for themselves. Saying that it was "still inside the womb" is like saying that "it was inside my car, and, afterall, it's MY car". Take the child out, hand him/her to a nurse, leave - why kill it? It's not about woman's rights at that point. That argument might hold water with some earlier in the process, but it's not consistent with typical abortion arguments.
    1. Who said anything thing about beating/poisoning/burning?
    2. I'm not pro-abortion. I'm pro-choice. Calling me pro-abortion is like calling you anti-women.
    3. It actually is about the woman's right since the child is in her body.

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    Advisor GreenvilleGrows's Avatar
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Women should have the option of having a child early if the fetus is viable instead of getting an abortion. It's my understanding that, currently, women can only choose to do that if it's medically necessary.
    In the posted example, women couldn't choose to do what they did, either. So, instead of choosing to deliver the child early, they chose to kill it. Which violated law do you think would be more likely to constitute murder? If you chose to have a viable fetus delivered early, what would the charge be? Now, if it was delivered early and then wasn't viable, you might have the same problem, but not a worse one.
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    These statements are not consistent. If this is about the woman's rights, then you'd just take the baby out. There'd be no reason to take the baby out and then strangle it (or beat it to death or poison it or burn it or whatever). Clearly, these statements are designed just to appear consistent with pro-abortion.

    If the baby will live on its own, and you kill it, it should be murder. Or, you should be able to kill children until they are able to provide for themselves. Saying that it was "still inside the womb" is like saying that "it was inside my car, and, afterall, it's MY car". Take the child out, hand him/her to a nurse, leave - why kill it? It's not about woman's rights at that point. That argument might hold water with some earlier in the process, but it's not consistent with typical abortion arguments.
    Yeah, that's where I am on the subject of late-term abortions. Once a fetus becomes viable, abortion is murder. There is absolutely no moral reason for a late-term abortion other than health reasons...which, as one poster pointed out, are illegal in 36 states. Maybe the other 16 will see the light. They certainly should.
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    1. Who said anything thing about beating/poisoning/burning?
    2. I'm not pro-abortion. I'm pro-choice. Calling me pro-abortion is like calling you anti-women.
    3. It actually is about the woman's right since the child is in her body.
    1.) How do you think these babies were killed? Suffocation, chemical burning, knocked on head, poisoned, etc.
    2.) You're actually not JUST pro-choice. You're pro killing viable babies. Not just for ending the source of sustenance and removal, but of killing it.
    3.) It's only about the women's rights when the child depends on her for life. Once it's "viable", then it's something different. Again, take it out and present it to a care-taker. There's no infringements on the woman's rights here - if it's coming out either way, why kill it?
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    1.) How do you think these babies were killed? Suffocation, chemical burning, knocked on head, poisoned, etc.
    What babies? Are you talking about fetuses who are aborted? Because if so, I'm pretty sure that's not how they do it.

    2.) You're actually not JUST pro-choice. You're pro killing viable babies. Not just for ending the source of sustenance and removal, but of killing it.
    I'm actually not, but whatever you need to believe.

    3.) It's only about the women's rights when the child depends on her for life. Once it's "viable", then it's something different. Again, take it out and present it to a care-taker. There's no infringements on the woman's rights here - if it's coming out either way, why kill it?
    Sure, I think the best option is to take it out as I've said several times in this thread. However, the best option should not be the only opinion available. Oh and it is about the woman's right.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    I'm generally against third trimester abortions for a potentially viable fetus, but there are times when an unforseen condition could make carrying to term medically dangerous to the mother, or when the fetus is hopelessly deformed with a condition that would life-threatening or, in the opinion of the parents, would result in an agonized life to which they do not wish their child to be subjected.

    I will say that on the surface these particular doctors don't seem fit to practice. I have questions, however, about the individual cases. For example, a third trimester abortion is almost always much more dangerous to the mother than either a C-section removal of the fetus or a natural birth. Who are these women who would take such a risk? Why would they wait so long before making this decision?

    I sense the problem is that medical professionals have basically been bullied into withholding any kind of abortion procedure or C-section removal of a potentially viable fetus by those who want all abortions to be illegal, and lawmakes who are chipping away at a women's right to reproductive choice.

    I'm particularly concerned about the decision to charge these doctors with murder in Maryland, a state where the law being used to prosecute them specifically states that it doesn't apply to women seeking abortion, only to those who's behavior has killed a potentially viable fetus without the mother's permission. This sends yet another chilling message to physicians that if they perform late-term abortions for any reason whatsoever, even to save the life of the mother or at the parents' request because of legitimate concerns, they may be charged with capital murder. And this is quite intolerable to me. It does no good to say that women have the constitutional right to have safe, legal abortions when doctors have been so cowed and threatened that there are no physicians willing to do them.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    When you're inside the womb, it's still about a woman's control over her body.
    Being "inside the womb" does not make the baby a part of the woman's body.

    and once the baby is born, unless it is immediately given up for adoption, the mother's wishes and wants have to take second place to those of the baby.

    Anyone who has ever cared for a newborn knows that.
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Being "inside the womb" does not make the baby a part of the woman's body.
    It actually does.

    and once the baby is born, unless it is immediately given up for adoption, the mother's wishes and wants have to take second place to those of the baby.

    Anyone who has ever cared for a newborn knows that.
    This has literally nothing to do with what I've said. I'm not talking about newborns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Legally speaking, does performing an abortion = killing?
    Seemingly in some states yes, depending on the weeks into the pregnancy

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