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Thread: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

  1. #41
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Doctors exist to heal and protect life, not take it. I can understand the position of people who support early term abortions, but late term abortions are nothing short of infanticide. I was born early at roughly 36 weeks. Why would it logically be ok to kill me due to my location inside of a womb versus outside?
    When you're inside the womb, it's still about a woman's control over her body.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So what makes an infant a full human? What's magical about birth? You need your own argument too.
    There's nothing magical about birth and I never said an infant was a "full human" whereas a fetus was not. (A child at all stages of development is human.) That's called putting words in my mouth. When you stop doing that, I'll share my other arguments.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I've already stated that I think the rights of the woman are more important than the rights of a fetus and that banning abortion doesn't actually stop abortion, it just decreases the safety of women who want them.
    Disagreeing with a law is one thing; calling it "dumb as hell" is much different.


    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    And, in my opinion, the right of a potential person to live is less important than the right of an actual full grown human being to do what she wants with her body. I'm not sure if you would prefer for me to just consider the "right to life" vs "the right to control one's body" without taking into account whose rights we are considering, but if you are that's not going to happen.

    Like I said, I consider cases individually and in this case the "who" is just as important as the "what" to me. And the woman's rights are more important than the unborn child's rights.
    I respectfully disagree. I don't think anyone's rights are more important than anyone else's. IMHO, we should be comparing the rights, not the people. This is how it's normally done. It's illegal to yell 'FIRE' in a crowded movie theater, not because some people are more important than others, but because the right to be safe is greater than freedom of speech.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  4. #44
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    When you're inside the womb, it's still about a woman's control over her body.
    Then why should she have the right to put someone to death in the most inhumane ways possible? Why not force deliver? Even so, her bodily sovereignty does not merit her the right to have a fully viable unborn child murdered at her request simply based on location.
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    When you're inside the womb, it's still about a woman's control over her body.
    but if the fetus is viable, and you remove it alive instead of killing it first, that doesn't reduce the woman's control of her body

    edit: not sure if this is medically correct
    Last edited by mpg; 12-31-11 at 03:25 PM.
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Disagreeing with a law is one thing; calling it "dumb as hell" is much different.
    Okay.

    I respectfully disagree. I don't think anyone's rights are more important than anyone else's. IMHO, we should be comparing the rights, not the people. This is how it's normally done. It's illegal to yell 'FIRE' in a crowded movie theater, not because some people are more important than others, but because the right to be safe is greater than freedom of speech.
    This a good point. We do tend to compare rights instead of people when making laws. However, with most laws, we're dealing with people who have been born - whose existence is beyond the grey area of the beginning and end of life. Abortion, like taking someone off life support, exists in that grey area and the person is always considered along with the rights.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    but if the fetus is viable, and you remove it alive instead of killing it first, that doesn't reduce the woman's control of her body

    edit: not sure if this is medically correct
    Well, it does because the fetus is still a part of the woman's body while it's inside of her. However, with this point specifically, I've always thought that for women who want late term abortions, doctors should be able to perform C-sections or something similar instead if the woman just wants to be rid of the kid for whatever, but I haven't looked much into that and I'm pretty sure most late term abortions are emergency related since they rarely happen.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    This a good point. We do tend to compare rights instead of people when making laws. However, with most laws, we're dealing with people who have been born - whose existence is beyond the grey area of the beginning and end of life. Abortion, like taking someone off life support, exists in that grey area and the person is always considered along with the rights.
    Does taking someone off of life support favor one group over another?
    Last edited by mpg; 12-31-11 at 03:32 PM.
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Then why should she have the right to put someone to death in the most inhumane ways possible? Why not force deliver? Even so, her bodily sovereignty does not merit her the right to have a fully viable unborn child murdered at her request simply based on location.
    These are your opinions (opinions based on emotional appeals I might add). I think it does give her the right to have an abortion. And force deliver is a better option, sure. However, better options don't have an effect on whether or not women should have the option to abort.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Does taking someone off of life support favor one group over another?
    Yeah, it favors the rights of the family over the right of the comatose person to live.

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