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Thread: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Which is why anarchy is not liberty.
    which is why libertarians are appropriately named; we support the idea of the government protecting life and liberty, even if some people don't like it
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    which is why libertarians are appropriately named; we support the idea of the government protecting life and liberty, even if some people don't like it
    Agreed.

    Too short? What do you mean, too short? Take your "too short" and... Oh, it's long enough now.
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Agreed.

    Too short? What do you mean, too short? Take your "too short" and... Oh, it's long enough now.
    The last phrase in my post was the key part. Are you sure that you agree with it?
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  4. #214
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    My view is none so simplistic and I tend to intensely disagree with all absolutes at the extremes. For example, I do think it would be "murder" to kill a child after a live-birth - but even exceptions to that, although extraordinary ones. In history, rape to force women of another race or people has been used as a genetic weapon. If on a large scale, and only if the individual woman of each child agreed, I could see that killing babies might fall within the rules of war as those babies specifically were the weapon of attacking the other culture on a mass scale. However, that would be in extreme situation and in one in which the race of the child had huge social and political impact within both cultures, so it is more a theory statement of past cultures than actual application potential today.

    Gray areas not definable in absolutes give some people problems. They don't for me. What I wrote is what I believe is the absolute further society could possibly go intruding into women's lives and control of her body.

    To give it real meaning on another level, if in late term a woman wanted to abort, I could "tolerate" it if a majority had a law that said she had to an induced labor or C-Section to try to live-birth the fetus. Since you claim the fetus is viable at that stage you should have no problem with that. Most states allow a woman to abandon a child at birth if she wishes and pro-lifers generally do support birth-mothers and their husbands throwing away unwanted newborns.

    So I guess your view is that if in the first couple weeks the rule was doctors had to try extract the zygote/fetus to try to keep it alive you're ok with that manner of abortion in that it wasn't being deliberately killed. Or did you not really mean what you wrote?
    You make a consistent point regarding historic war. But, I don't think race or maintaining purity thereof, is a cause for killing human life either. If you want revenge, kill tbe raper, not the innocent.

    To your question, no, unfortunately, it would just be torture to the child until science is able to make that work. Discussing viable life, yes. Discussing tortured life, no. I'm basically anti-abortion, pro personal responsibility. But, I understand everyone doesn't define when life begins the same as me. And, I can't force someone to think of life in the same way as I. But, it amazes me when people use typical arguments to defend partial birth abortion.
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Your example of "crushing the head while the body is mostly delivered" is partial birth abortion and that's illegal. Also, I don't support partial birth abortion. However, you're right about the potassium chloride thing and I didn't know that that's what you meant by "burning". My mistake. Moreover, I am pro-choice, I support improving abortion procedures to eliminate any potential pain that an unborn child might feel. Even so, the amount of pain a fetus can actually feel is still a pretty contested subject.


    Yeah, I think a woman's right to choose is more important than a unborn child's right to live. Would I prefer that women not get abortions, particularly so late? Sure I do. But I think women should have the choice. And as I mentioned earlier, I think women should also have the choice to induce birth rather than have an abortion so that viable children have a chance. However, it's my understanding that, currently, women can only make that choice for medical reasons not personal ones which is a problem.


    You're not protecting the mother's rights by telling her what to do and I don't believe in telling women what to do with regards to abortion. Your argument is simply a pro-life argument that's telling me that my reasons for being pro-choice aren't good enough for you. But the thing is, I don't care if they are.
    I understand the arguments you're making in reference to a 6 week fetus, for example. But not for a premature birth situation. Would you tell a woman not to kill her child at age 5? Or, not to kill her boyfriend or parents? Of course! So, you're for limiting woman's choice, too. My question to you was what distinguishes a child 4 weeks premature vs 3 months old. Your answer leaves the assumption that you see no distinction, and are ok, therefore with killing either - and potentially much older, but I doubt that's true.
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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