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Thread: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo View Post
    I mean in this Country, it must end.

    I hope that tech NEVER comes out, because there is a better solution: Don't have Children unless you want Children, aka. Abstinence.
    Abstinence. Not e.v.e.r. going to happen.
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    The only thing, in my opinion, that will end the abortion debate once and for all is if technology has advanced to the point [...] we can keep a zygote alive outside the uterus from the moment of fertilization.
    edited for clarity And yet you have indicated multiple times in this thread that the ability to keep it alive did not matter in your reasoning. After all, that's what this thread was about - babies that had the ability to live outside of the mother but were killed anyway.
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Abstinence. Not e.v.e.r. going to happen.
    Well, maybe not intentionally.
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    It actually does.


    This has literally nothing to do with what I've said. I'm not talking about newborns.
    It actually doesn't. A fetus is not a part of a woman's body.
    and it has everything to do with what you've been saying.
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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    I have no problem with criminal prosecution in this instance. BUT BUT BUT...

    The case tells where Republicans who want a law declaring "life begins at conception" leads. The Dr is being charged with FIRST DEGREE MURDER. In most states that means either life without parole or the death penalty.

    Over 40 million women have had abortions. To define "life begins at conception" is not a law, it is a legal definition clarification. There is no statute of limitations for murder. Upon the Republican and religious right obtaining that clarifying definition of law, 40+ million American women could be charged with 1st Degree Murder - as could their doctors. Probably, the Republicans would declare that for practical reasons they won't actually try to execute 40,000,000 women and thousands of doctors, they'll just declare them felons with probation (taking away the doctor's license of course), and thus also eliminate 40,000,000+ pro-choice and not-religious-right-wing and not Republican voters permanently as convicted felons of the offense of murder. Maybe for past cases they'll be "merciful" and only make it manslaughter.

    It will only be lower income mostly minority teenage girls in the future they'll try to have executed or imprisoned for life without parole where they can then have babies from rape by the male guards.

    Of course, they want to exempt upper income women who can merely travel to another country - because it is more likely upper income women will vote Republican and, of course, the anti-abortion laws would actually affect them or their daughters and grand-daughters. Wealthy Republicans get abortions. Poor Democrats are executed, imprisoned or minimally banned from ever voting again.
    Last edited by joko104; 01-01-12 at 01:08 PM.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I have no problem with criminal prosecution in this instance. BUT BUT BUT...

    The case tells where Republicans who want a law declaring "life begins at conception" leads. The Dr is being charged with FIRST DEGREE MURDER. In most states that means either life without parole or the death penalty.

    Over 40 million women have had abortions. To define "life begins at conception" is not a law, it is a legal definition clarification. There is no statute of limitations for murder. Upon the Republican and religious right obtaining that clarifying definition of law, 40+ million American women could be charged with 1st Degree Murder - as could their doctors. Probably, the Republicans would declare that for practical reasons they won't actually try to execute 40,000,000 women and thousands of doctors, they'll just declare them felons with probation (taking away the doctor's license of course), and thus also eliminate 40,000,000+ pro-choice and not-religious-right-wing and not Republican voters permanently as convicted felons of the offense of murder. Maybe for past cases they'll be "merciful" and only make it manslaughter.

    It will only be lower income mostly minority teenage girls in the future they'll try to have executed or imprisoned for life without parole where they can then have babies from rape by the male guards.

    Of course, they want to exempt upper income women who can merely travel to another country - because it is more likely upper income women will vote Republican and, of course, the anti-abortion laws would actually affect them or their daughters and grand-daughters. Wealthy Republicans get abortions. Poor Democrats are executed, imprisoned or minimally banned from ever voting again.
    This is only about late term abortions, not all abortions. Your 40,000,000 figure is way off, and this has nothing to do with life beginning at conception. Your post belongs in another thread.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    This is only about late term abortions, not all abortions. Your 40,000,000 figure is way off, and this has nothing to do with life beginning at conception. Your post belongs in another thread.
    It's not irrelevant at all. The topic is effectively "is destroying a fetus in the 3rd trimester 1st degree murder?" as opposed to some other offense? The law is giving the fetus fully human status. The "life beings at conception" folks want the MD law - but to change 3rd trimester to at conception.

    A fetus is the same as a live-born child is step 1 of the 2 step process. First, declare a fetus is exactly the same as a person. The only thing left is to change at what point in pregnancy the abortion-is-1st-degree murder starts?

    Legally declaring destroying a fetus is "murder" - as opposed to some other criminal offense if late term - is an anti-abortion versus pro-choice watershed issue.

    My numbers are not off.

    1/3rd of all women will have had an abortion by age 45. That ultimately puts the number at between 40 to 50 million women given half the population is female. Over half will have had an unwanted pregnancy. Over 75 million unwanted pregnancies. Do the math yourself. You do not have a reality view of women.

    An Overview of Abortion in the United States

    • Nearly half of all pregnancies to American women are unintended; four in 10 of these end in abortion.
    • About half of American women have experienced an unintended pregnancy, and at current rates more than one-third (35%) will have had an abortion by age 45.
    • Overall unintended pregnancy rates have stagnated over the past decade, yet unintended pregnancy increased by 29% among poor women while decreasing 20% among higher-income women.
    • In 2005, 1.21 million abortions were performed, down from 1.31 million abortions in 2000.
    • Nine in 10 abortions occur in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy.
    • A broad cross section of U.S. women have abortions:
      • 56% of women having abortions are in their 20s;
      • 61% have one or more children;
      • 67% have never married;
      • 57% are economically disadvantaged;
      • 88% live in a metropolitan area; and
      • 78% report a religious affiliation.
    Last edited by joko104; 01-01-12 at 02:01 PM.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I have no problem with criminal prosecution in this instance. BUT BUT BUT...

    The case tells where Republicans who want a law declaring "life begins at conception" leads. The Dr is being charged with FIRST DEGREE MURDER. In most states that means either life without parole or the death penalty.

    Over 40 million women have had abortions. To define "life begins at conception" is not a law, it is a legal definition clarification. There is no statute of limitations for murder. Upon the Republican and religious right obtaining that clarifying definition of law, 40+ million American women could be charged with 1st Degree Murder - as could their doctors. Probably, the Republicans would declare that for practical reasons they won't actually try to execute 40,000,000 women and thousands of doctors, they'll just declare them felons with probation (taking away the doctor's license of course), and thus also eliminate 40,000,000+ pro-choice and not-religious-right-wing and not Republican voters permanently as convicted felons of the offense of murder. Maybe for past cases they'll be "merciful" and only make it manslaughter.

    It will only be lower income mostly minority teenage girls in the future they'll try to have executed or imprisoned for life without parole where they can then have babies from rape by the male guards.

    Of course, they want to exempt upper income women who can merely travel to another country - because it is more likely upper income women will vote Republican and, of course, the anti-abortion laws would actually affect them or their daughters and grand-daughters. Wealthy Republicans get abortions. Poor Democrats are executed, imprisoned or minimally banned from ever voting again.
    So, you're of the "since it's a difficult topic, it's better not to address it" frame of mind? If it's wrong to kill a child who can live without the mother, then it's wrong - regardless of what's happening to all the children who can't live without the mother (fetus). Saying "but it's a slippery slope" is a cop out. If it's a slippery slope, go down the slope a little way and shovel out a place to stand. Does your toe hold only exist at the point that the child drops onto the floor? Or, maybe it's a few days after? You're not a politician, Joko (at least I don't think so), so what's wrong with just saying that certain behavior deserves to be punished.
    The US is an odd ship. The captain yells out when he sees obtacles , but 535 individual propellers do the steering.

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Odd that they'd store the fetus's in a freezer. Sickos.
    “In politics, stupidity is not a handicap.” -Napoleon

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    Re: 2 abortion providers charged with murder in Md.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleGrows View Post
    edited for clarity And yet you have indicated multiple times in this thread that the ability to keep it alive did not matter in your reasoning. After all, that's what this thread was about - babies that had the ability to live outside of the mother but were killed anyway.
    I don't know where you're getting this from, but I never said such a thing.

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