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Thread: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

  1. #171
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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So, my question here. If Iran tries to block the Straight, 1. is that an act of war? and 2. Would the US be justified in taking out Iran's navy, and possibly further action in Iran?


    j-mac
    1. It is traditionally seen as an act of war to deny access to international waterways.
    2. Yes, absolutely justified to do to the Iranian navy what the Japanese did to the Russian navy in the Strait of Tsushima in 1905.
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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Two sides to this story. Our embargo against Iran constitutes an "act of war." Would you rather forget that, or are you still hearing the old Saddam lark "mushroom clouds in the US?" Complete bullcrap taking residence in your cerebellum.
    Deciding not to do business with a foreign state is NOT an act of war. There is no requirement under international law to do business with every state in teh world. Access to international waterways IS protected under international law and the Strait of Hormuz is an international waterway.
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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Where in America is this straight again that gives us the claim to have the rights to defend it??

    Why are we justified in retaliating against someone trying to defend their own sovereign interests??

    Would the Norwegians be justified in taking out Cuba's navy if the Cuban's prevented shipment of their cigars around the world??
    The Strait of Hormuz is an international waterway, and this is not Iran's sovereign interest...

    Your comparison is so nonsensical it doesn't deserve any other comment..
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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    The U.S. doesn't have rights to the Strait, so I don't see how it would be a direct declaration of war against the U.S. to block it. Obviously it would affect our oil economy, but in terms of legal provisions, the Strait is not ours so all of this entitlement to attack Iran about it is uncalled for. If the U.S. attacks Iran over the Strait then we would be violating international law. Despite what the warhawks would have us believe, we can't just go to war with any country we want. Mind you, the UN law has been flouted many times in recent years by several of the big powers, so it might not matter, especially if the U.S. forms a coalition again.

    I have to agree though that during a recession and an election year, another major war would be extremely unpopular - but it could happen anyway, since oil industry is our biggest sacred cow. Anything that obstructs it would suffer the rath of the Republocrats. Not to mention, the POTUS has the unilateral power to deploy the military now, so it would actually be up to King Obama and not so much our Congress, unless the GOP makes a push for it to happen.

    The only loose canon here is Israel, and their government has been looking for any excuse to bomb the **** out of Iran for several years now. The tensions are climbing. It wouldn't be so severe if Iran weren't already surrounded by nations that have been infiltrated by our military. They are likely to be more nervous, and more nervous means they will take measures to procure their security.
    The strait is international waters and this EVERYONE has the right to use it. Iran has no legal authority to try to block it.
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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    more like: a nuclear Iran is a threat to American troops. They are not a threat to me or anyone else in the United States.
    Until it gets into the hands of terrorists...
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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    1. It is traditionally seen as an act of war to deny access to international waterways.
    2. Yes, absolutely justified to do to the Iranian navy what the Japanese did to the Russian navy in the Strait of Tsushima in 1905.
    re suez canal crisis
    and recall the intervention of the cold war adversaries to de-escalate things
    bet that history lesson is not lost on the chinese during this reprise of hostilities with its trading partner, iran
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    "If Iran doesn't attack us we will just keep pressuring it until it does. Then we can claim self defense and do whatever we want." - America
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    1. It is traditionally seen as an act of war to deny access to international waterways.
    2. Yes, absolutely justified to do to the Iranian navy what the Japanese did to the Russian navy in the Strait of Tsushima in 1905.
    So Japan was justified in attacking Pearl Harbor?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    No, it would not. The United States cannot unilaterally decide that it has the right to start a war because another nation interferes with an international trade route.

    If the United Nations were to resolve to use force to break the blockade, than the US could carry out that policy. But the idea that the US can march around interfering here or there on its own whim is false.

    Which is not to say that we just might.

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    This is a reflection of how successful the Obama adminstration's efforts to isolate Iran politically and economically are.

    The Bush adminstration talked the same talk but they couldn't pull it off. They had made so many enemies and alienated so many people over their war in Iraq, that the Iranians were able to play the Americans off against the Russians, Chinese and Europeans.

    The Adminstration mended many of those fences (for which American conservatives condemmed him for "apologizing"). When the Adminstration called for tougher sanctions against Iran two months ago, Britain co opererated and forces Shell to stop buying Iranian oil through a back channel in violation of previous sanctions. Thi is what motivated the attacks oon the British embassy a months ago. Pakistan is delying action on a potential pipeline into Iran under US pressure.

    Iran used the oil weapon against the US in 1973 and again in 1979. But the weak global economy, the explosion in oil from hydraulic fracking in the US, and plentiful supplies gives the international community a chance to turn the tables on Iran. We don't need Iranian oil right now, which gives us the leverage to pressure them economically to end their nuclear program. It is an intelligent policy, one that's as effective as any short of war, and a lot less risky.

    A lot of conservatives like to beat their chests and rant about "going in" to Iran. Iran is three times the size of Iraq. And the last time US leaders beat thier chests and "went in" to a country, things didn't turn out so well.

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