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Thread: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i would submit that a nuclear pakistan is more of a threat to our troops deployed to the ME
    to consider iran a domestic nuclear threat is a bit of a stretch
    and yet, there is no discussion of taking out Pakistan's nuclear capability. funny how that works huh?

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Pakistan and Iran are different countries. That means they are, *gasp*, different. We handle the situation in each case differently. This is not complicated. Any essentially unstable or inimical country with nukes or working towards nukes is a potential thread, be they Iran, Pakistan, China, Russia, Israel, India, North Korea. We treat those countries all differently, which, considering they are different, is appropriate.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Iran's hand on the oil spigot is not a natural capitalist market force. It would cause unnatural fluctuations in supply, which would disproportinately effect certain countries more than others. Much to our ruin.
    Why do we care what happens in other countries? We don't. And Iran is filled with empty threats. Everyone knows if they started blocking oil to countries they would be cutting their own head off. Paul has already said he plans to open up oil drilling in this country by completely unblocking it and we could easily get oil from elsewhere if Iran decides to go full retard and block countries from buying its oil. Even if somehow everything went to **** for us we would still be able to live through it fine and most likely be better off because of it. This is a non issue.

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Why do we care what happens in other countries? We don't. And Iran is filled with empty threats. Everyone knows if they started blocking oil to countries they would be cutting their own head off. Paul has already said he plans to open up oil drilling in this country by completely unblocking it and we could easily get oil from elsewhere if Iran decides to go full retard and block countries from buying its oil. Even if somehow everything went to **** for us we would still be able to live through it fine and most likely be better off because of it. This is a non issue.
    As I noted earlier in the thread, our ability to ignore things in the ME with regard to oil is directly proportional to the amount of added oil we access here in North America, especially stateside and Canada. But until we decrease our dependence on imported oil, we are ......... drumroll ........... completely dependent upon it.

    Many of us agree that Iran has zero intention of blocking the Straits. The question posed though was "what if they did attempt to block them". The call for military action would be widespread.
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 12-31-11 at 03:30 PM.

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Why do we care what happens in other countries? We don't. And Iran is filled with empty threats. Everyone knows if they started blocking oil to countries they would be cutting their own head off. Paul has already said he plans to open up oil drilling in this country by completely unblocking it and we could easily get oil from elsewhere if Iran decides to go full retard and block countries from buying its oil. Even if somehow everything went to **** for us we would still be able to live through it fine and most likely be better off because of it. This is a non issue.
    So a little more oil at some unspecified future date if Paul actually won the election(and that has about zero chance of happening) somehow would ofset the loss of 1/5 of the worlds oil supply being stopped up in the Persian Gulf?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by RoccoR View Post
    j-mac, et al,

    I know that many, many people would agree with you on this. But, there are other issues, concepts and principles involved. I may not totally agree with Ron Paul's logic; but it does give pause for concern.

    (THE ARGUMENT - THUMBNAIL - GOES LIKE THIS)

    The US needs to rank it's "vital interests" with the "vital interests" of all the key players. This constant use, by political midget minds, of the phrase "US vital Interests" and "National Security" as an excuse for unilateral authority to enter into military conflicts is becoming overworked.

    There are about 15-20 VLCC Oil Tankers that transit the Straits of Hormuz daily. Only a faction of them are US Flagged. But none of the Persian Gulf Terminals are US. They belong to some of the riches nations in the world. Filthy rich! (Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates and Oman!!!) And every one of them (with the exception of Iraq) can afford to fund their own protective defense force.

    Iran has a GNP of about $187B. Kuwait $59B, Saudi Arabia $289B, Bahrain $10B, Qatar $15B, United Arab Emirates $112B and Oman $23B; not counting Iraq with $16B. For most of them, oil is their only significant export. The Straits are much more critical a passage to them, than to the US. Without the Straits, they are shut-down.

    Why is it the US that has to defend the Straits? Well the answer is, the US does not. The US does so because it wants to be Regionally Relevant and exercise hegemonic like influence. The Persian Gulf/Arabian Sea Neighbors to Iran cannot afford to let Iran block the straits any more than Iran itself can afford to box-in its own exports.

    Yes, I've heard all the arguments that the 5th Fleet is the only force in the region that can challenge Iran. But each time we play the role of "World Police" - we get our reputation massacred and get virtually no return on our investment. And, we further convince the Regional Government that they need not invest in their own critical defense soft points.

    At a time when unemployment is at an all time high, and when the budget is stretched to its limit, when American credit has been internationally down graded, when multinational and transnational corporations (like Exxon $370B, Royal Dutch Shell $368B, BP $297B, Sinopec $289B, etc, most having a annual revenue greater than the Persian Gulf States) are exporting jobs like crazy, do we need to spend money maintaining the 5th US Fleet to protect Persian Gulf Interests.


    Defend the Persian Gulf Region today, and you'll have to do it again tomorrow; even as they condemn you for it. Make them defend themselves, and you'll save yourself the problems associated with infidels interfering.

    At some point, you would think we would have learned that we cannot trust these people; and nor can we afford to defend them.

    If the Regional Governments of (Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates and Oman!!!) And if they don't have a problem with Iran, and are concerned enough to contain Iran, then why should the US?

    (COMMENT)

    There is some merit to the argument. And, there are some ironies.

    The US did not ratify the UNC Law of the Seas convention when it was introduced nearly 30 years ago. Nor has the US ratified the International Criminal Code (Rome Statues) introduced a decade ago. Yet we tend to exercise military force under the flag of "customary law." Other nations see this as recognizing the conventions as - "when it is convenient for America." They have learned that America will selectively enforce conventions as the "World Police." But are not subject to them. We circumvent UN decrees - when they don't act the way we want (Coalition of the Un-willing), and use them when we take action.

    But no matter what the argument - it will not stop the US from taking a military confrontational position. The US needs, it is an essential need, to be militarily relevant in the region.

    People like Ron Paul see a different way. Let's not be too hard on them.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
    Most excellent post, my friend! This is why I stated that should Iran blockage the Straits, it shouldn't be the U.S. who comes to the rescue. We really don't have a vital national security interest in the Persian Gulf region where oil is concerned because we don't import nearly as much OPEC oil now as we once did. Therefore, if the blockade becomes a U.N. problem, then and only then should we intervene on that level. However, it would be a completely different matter should Iran attack one of our warships or military aircraft in the region. Otherwise, they've done nothing to warrant a U.S. retaliation. Leave them be; let them thumb their chests. As long as they leave us alone, we'll leave them alone.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 12-31-11 at 03:47 PM.

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So a little more oil at some unspecified future date if Paul actually won the election(and that has about zero chance of happening) somehow would ofset the loss of 1/5 of the worlds oil supply being stopped up in the Persian Gulf?
    Wish you luck on the never going to happen chant. Always works out well for people. You should ask conservatives how well that has worked out for them in the last 90 or so years.

    Anyway, if it they go through with it and we can't replace it, than well, that is that. Prices will go up and the market will deal with it. Still not seeing a warrant in action.
    Last edited by Henrin; 12-31-11 at 03:53 PM.

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Pete, try and understand this. The US is planning sanctions against Iran instead of military strikes. The US will stop any effort of Iran to close the straits, which is hardly going to war. And some of us liberals agree that Iran cannot be allowed to close the straits.
    LOL yea .. like the sanctions it has had against Cuba and Iran for the last few decades have matter at all. And like it or not, it is not the rhetoric coming from the right.. it is war talk.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    If filming a carrier is enough for a stand-off, all Iran needs is a few camcorders and they can hold out for years!
    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Not necessarily the Pitbull's battle alone, but it's easier to fight the battle when your supposed "allies" aren't always getting in the way rather than doing anything truly useful. Then again I'm not sure the US is really a Pitbull anymore. I doubt our current administration has the intestinal fortitude to fight a war all-out. Obviously the last one did not, nor have any since the end of WWII.

    tell that to me and my regiment when we backed you up in Iraq...

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