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Thread: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

  1. #121
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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Ya, I remember how we "won the war" in 12 hours, because Saddam Hussein had a yellow cake after 9-11.

    Either way, I don't doubt that we could overwhelm their military, but it certainly would not be anything like how quickly Iraqi forces were initially overwhelmed.

    Once the strait is blocked, it could take many months to resolve the problem and get ships moving again... not that it would take THAT long to have a significant impact on oil prices, which would undoubtedly push the economy over the edge of a cliff.

    Then the only choice becomes to create a war economy... and you'll either be working to build up the military, adding to the the boots on the ground, or acting as "homeland security".
    Many months ? What are we going to do, keep asking Imanutjob to have a beer until we find his favorite brand ?

    We don't have to "overwhelm their military". Just eliminate their offensive capabilities in the Strait. I would hope Iran not so stupid as to close the Strait, but if so, I hope the plan is not to send beer.

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Many months ? What are we going to do, keep asking Imanutjob to have a beer until we find his favorite brand ?

    We don't have to "overwhelm their military". Just eliminate their offensive capabilities in the Strait. I would hope Iran not so stupid as to close the Strait, but if so, I hope the plan is not to send beer.

    i am thinking the plan is to provoke iran into doing something stupid
    likely the reason we sent our aircraft carrier to enter the very waters where the iranians were conducting their announced naval exercise
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    their defense from whom?
    Indeed. Their defense from whom. That is the real question.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Many months ? What are we going to do, keep asking Imanutjob to have a beer until we find his favorite brand ?

    We don't have to "overwhelm their military". Just eliminate their offensive capabilities in the Strait. I would hope Iran not so stupid as to close the Strait, but if so, I hope the plan is not to send beer.
    It seems that people in this thread keep forgetting that Iran is an Islamic republic. Ahmadinejad, while he may be the President of Iran, does not hold real power. Real power lies in the hands of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. The post of President may not exist for much longer as Kamenei is considering getting rid of it all together (Will Ayatollah Khamenei eliminate the Iranian presidency? – Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs) (Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: the last president of Iran? | Saeed Kamali Dehghan | Comment is free | The Guardian)
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  5. #125
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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Indeed. Their defense from whom. That is the real question.
    From their own people in the case of the Gulf states

  6. #126
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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    I'm not a Paul supporter. I do understand his stance with regards to the Constitution.
    The Constitution imposes no such requirements on Paul. The contrast between how FDR responded to Pearl Harbor attack and how Ron Paul says he would respond to an Iranian act of aggression against vital U.S. interests could not be greater. The issue isn't the Constitution. It's Paul's naive neo-isolationist/non-interventionist ideology.

    His ideology is premised on the assumption that what happens overseas has no impact on the U.S. Hence, even if Iran undertook an action to close the Strait of Hormuz and sparked a global energy crisis, Paul would meekly "report" the issue to Congress. Anyone can observe or report issues. Leadership would be required in the face of the crisis and, as had been the case with the financial crisis, Paul would provide none. Others would need to provide it. I have little doubt that Congress would clean up Paul's mess in this case. However, the reality is that leadership voids invite challenges. The absence of leadership in the White House during a Paul Presidency would pose a threat to American interests.

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The Constitution imposes no such requirements on Paul. The contrast between how FDR responded to Pearl Harbor attack and how Ron Paul says he would respond to an Iranian act of aggression against vital U.S. interests could not be greater. The issue isn't the Constitution. It's Paul's naive neo-isolationist/non-interventionist ideology.
    Those are not comparable.

    His ideology is premised on the assumption that what happens overseas has no impact on the U.S. Hence, even if Iran undertook an action to close the Strait of Hormuz and sparked a global energy crisis, Paul would meekly "report" the issue to Congress.
    An energy crisis is not a risk to the life of American citizens. No action is warranted, action is not. If the prices go out of control that is where the market starts to work, not where government starts to save the day. The US government has no authority to be involved in the matter.

    Anyone can observe or report issues. Leadership would be required in the face of the crisis and, as had been the case with the financial crisis, Paul would provide none.
    He wouldn't save the banks or pump the economy with money or even help people save their homes. You are taking "he will not do what I want" as no action at all. That is a mistake. He isn't a Keynesian supporter or social or market interventionist and that appears to be where you problem is and yes the constitution does stop those activities regardless of what the SC says.
    Last edited by Henrin; 12-31-11 at 12:18 PM.

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i am thinking the plan is to provoke iran into doing something stupid
    likely the reason we sent our aircraft carrier to enter the very waters where the iranians were conducting their announced naval exercise
    I think that an argument can be made that us ramping up what could be perceived as an absolute intent to not let Iran close International Waters is rather a provocation for Iran to not do something stupid.

    While I believe Iran has no true intent of closing anything, sanctions or no sanctions, I believe the correct course of action is to make it as clear as possible to Iran that we will respond with prejudice, and with the support of many other countries, both in that region, and worldwide. If anything, this posturing by Iran has made themselves seem as more a loose-cannon than before, and I do not see that helping them in any arena except with a few of the hometown extremists regardless.

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i am thinking the plan is to provoke iran into doing something stupid
    likely the reason we sent our aircraft carrier to enter the very waters where the iranians were conducting their announced naval exercise
    So the plan is to pick a fight? And people call Ron Paul nuts.

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    Re: Strait of Hormuz standoff: Iran films US aircraft carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    I think that an argument can be made that us ramping up what could be perceived as an absolute intent to not let Iran close International Waters is rather a provocation for Iran to not do something stupid.

    While I believe Iran has no true intent of closing anything, sanctions or no sanctions, I believe the correct course of action is to make it as clear as possible to Iran that we will respond with prejudice, and with the support of many other countries, both in that region, and worldwide. If anything, this posturing by Iran has made themselves seem as more a loose-cannon than before, and I do not see that helping them in any arena except with a few of the hometown extremists regardless.
    what we observed was iran's bellicose chest thumping, however false it may be, in order to save face
    the new sanctions cost them face
    they are trying to pretend that they can control their own fate
    and yes, its audience was likely as internal as external
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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